The Keddie Cabin Murders

This is the full transcript from the 15 Minutes of Murder deep dive podcast episode covering the Keddie Cabin Murders.

58
00:03:16.300 –> 00:03:28.790
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Hello, everyone! Happy Sunday, and welcome to the full podcast version of 15 Minutes of Murder, where we are going to deep dive into the Keddie Cabin murder case.

59
00:03:28.980 –> 00:03:47.509
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: We’re going to be running down everything from top to bottom that you saw in the mini case file, and we’re gonna talk about some questions that our viewers have had and submitted on our YouTube, and I am your host, Tanisha Slater, with co-host.

60
00:03:50.150 –> 00:03:50.930
15MinutesofMurder.com: Greg.

61
00:03:51.060 –> 00:03:51.980
15MinutesofMurder.com: Hello.

62
00:03:54.180 –> 00:03:57.469
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And our resident crime expert.

63
00:03:58.350 –> 00:04:01.280
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Present! Present!

64
00:04:01.280 –> 00:04:02.280
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: She is here.

65
00:04:02.610 –> 00:04:04.870
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I’m here and accounted for.

66
00:04:05.550 –> 00:04:13.870
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Alright, so I am your host, Nisha Slater, with co-host Craig, and our resident crime expert, Desiree.

67
00:04:14.330 –> 00:04:15.100
15MinutesOfMurder.com: present.

68
00:04:15.690 –> 00:04:20.449
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And we are going to jump in and break down. So, what we’re gonna talk about is…

69
00:04:20.800 –> 00:04:24.239
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: the Keddie family. Keddie family were…

70
00:04:24.410 –> 00:04:27.419
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Family who lived in a small town in the mountains.

71
00:04:27.580 –> 00:04:31.180
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And nearly the entire family was slaughtered.

72
00:04:31.300 –> 00:04:35.399
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: There was a survivor, which is the daughter, Sheila.

73
00:04:35.600 –> 00:04:36.799
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And her brother.

74
00:04:37.170 –> 00:04:42.089
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And, I can’t remember anything. This is gonna be hell.

75
00:04:43.880 –> 00:04:45.140
15MinutesofMurder.com: Just look at your notes.

76
00:04:45.420 –> 00:04:46.180
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Give me a minute.

77
00:04:46.600 –> 00:04:52.500
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: The words are too small. Craig, I’m blind! That’s the problem! I’m trying to do this without my glasses on!

78
00:04:52.500 –> 00:04:53.640
15MinutesofMurder.com: Make them bigger.

79
00:04:53.790 –> 00:04:54.420
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Alright.

80
00:04:55.510 –> 00:05:00.059
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, we’re going to be jumping into a deep dive of this

81
00:05:00.350 –> 00:05:08.729
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: First case that we’ve done, the Keddie Cabin Murders, where a family was slaughtered in their home in a tiny mountain resort.

82
00:05:08.910 –> 00:05:13.559
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And it’s basically a 40-year-old mystery riddled with corruption.

83
00:05:13.800 –> 00:05:16.999
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, this happened on April 11th.

84
00:05:17.350 –> 00:05:18.040
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: 12?

85
00:05:18.420 –> 00:05:19.900
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Keddie, California.

86
00:05:21.420 –> 00:05:31.170
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: The victims are Glenna Sue Sharp, who is 36, her children, John, 15, Tina, 12, Ricky, 10, and Greg, 5.

87
00:05:32.090 –> 00:05:34.340
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: John and Tina?

88
00:05:34.480 –> 00:05:35.970
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Were actually murdered.

89
00:05:37.020 –> 00:05:39.400
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And John’s friend, Dana Wingate.

90
00:05:41.400 –> 00:05:43.890
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Three youngest boys survived the attack.

91
00:05:44.090 –> 00:05:45.739
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: One of them was a friend.

92
00:05:46.010 –> 00:05:49.330
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Of the young boys, and they were asleep in the back room.

93
00:05:49.580 –> 00:06:00.730
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, we’re gonna get into the background of the Sharp family, and a little bit of the background on Keddie. So, the Sharp family, they were a military family, and…

94
00:06:01.470 –> 00:06:02.390
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Sue…

95
00:06:03.000 –> 00:06:11.670
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: was in a bad marriage. They lived over on the East Coast, and she went out west with her kids to make a better life for them.

96
00:06:11.830 –> 00:06:14.820
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Wound up in a small town in Keddie.

97
00:06:15.200 –> 00:06:17.879
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And wound up in cabin 28.

98
00:06:19.480 –> 00:06:23.610
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: what she did for work. Someone on our YouTube asked.

99
00:06:24.910 –> 00:06:34.719
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: what she did for work, and she was receiving money, actually, from the U.S. Navy through her husband, through her ex-husband, and it was only about $250 a month.

100
00:06:34.720 –> 00:06:35.120
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

101
00:06:35.120 –> 00:06:44.019
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: She, she worked a part-time job. Again, not making much. I’m sure she got by with what she could.

102
00:06:44.240 –> 00:06:48.229
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And she was also on, public assistance.

103
00:06:48.420 –> 00:06:49.640
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: He’s on government assistance.

104
00:06:50.500 –> 00:06:56.090
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And I think she also received some kind of stipend for school or something like that.

105
00:06:56.090 –> 00:06:57.030
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Oh, yeah.

106
00:06:57.330 –> 00:07:00.310
15MinutesofMurder.com: Sorry, she was in college, like, college, right?

107
00:07:00.310 –> 00:07:00.850
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: reading.

108
00:07:00.850 –> 00:07:13.690
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, at least enrolled, and there was some kind of, questions about if she actually attended, the classes or not, but yeah, she was receiving a stipend for school.

109
00:07:14.130 –> 00:07:29.440
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, so she, obviously, you know, you can… you can give her her props as being a mom, trying to get her kids out of a nasty situation with an abusive husband, or, you know, allegedly abusive husband, and relocated to Keddie for, you know, affordable living.

110
00:07:29.830 –> 00:07:34.170
15MinutesofMurder.com: She had a brother or somebody that lived near Keddie, California, right?

111
00:07:35.180 –> 00:07:44.700
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, that’s when they lived in the, at least according to everything that I have come across, a really raggedy trailer park or something that was

112
00:07:44.700 –> 00:07:55.199
15MinutesOfMurder.com: That was so bad that it made this cabin 28 and Caddy look luxurious. So that was their…

113
00:07:55.240 –> 00:07:58.510
15MinutesOfMurder.com: stop before Cabin 28.

114
00:07:58.920 –> 00:08:05.110
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, and we keep saying cabin, and, like, you think of, like, a little small cabin in the woods, but this was, you know, a sizably large…

115
00:08:05.250 –> 00:08:07.739
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, home that they lived in.

116
00:08:08.040 –> 00:08:26.470
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It was once a vibrant railroad resort town, it was thriving. But by the 1980s, it was run down, it was isolated, there was crime, you know, crime was getting, you know, on the rise, and, you know, it wasn’t so much of a safe place.

117
00:08:27.030 –> 00:08:29.759
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You escape one, you know, nightmare, and…

118
00:08:30.390 –> 00:08:32.299
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And walk into another.

119
00:08:32.419 –> 00:08:33.599
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It happens.

120
00:08:33.990 –> 00:08:40.829
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But a small population, small population, I think, as you said, you know, when you say small.

121
00:08:41.150 –> 00:08:41.659
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: We’re talking.

122
00:08:41.669 –> 00:08:42.539
15MinutesOfMurder.com: small.

123
00:08:42.599 –> 00:08:56.979
15MinutesOfMurder.com: We’re talking if the three of us, along with maybe two other people, we could count the amount of residents on our collective hands and feet, right? I believe…

124
00:08:56.979 –> 00:09:03.799
15MinutesOfMurder.com: The Google Census search that I did said it’s about… it was, like, 100 people.

125
00:09:03.859 –> 00:09:14.939
15MinutesOfMurder.com: in Caddy. I have worked dozens of cases where there have been more than 100 witnesses. So, we’re… we’re not talking…

126
00:09:15.229 –> 00:09:27.199
15MinutesOfMurder.com: a lot of people. Like, if you… if we were to probably to count up the people who lived on any of the blocks that either of us live on, we would probably come to 100 folks easily.

127
00:09:27.450 –> 00:09:34.420
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, yeah, but when that’s all that’s in your town, then… Everybody knows everything.

128
00:09:35.050 –> 00:09:36.370
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Everyone knows everyone.

129
00:09:36.370 –> 00:09:39.699
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Or if you’re not, you don’t know everyone, you’re related to half of the town.

130
00:09:39.820 –> 00:09:48.279
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, you know, the fact that, you know, it’s a small town, and the fact that there was poor police oversight from the Plumas County Sheriff’s Department.

131
00:09:48.540 –> 00:09:55.809
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: kind of… What’s… this case in a tricky situation of being unsolved all these years later.

132
00:09:56.780 –> 00:10:01.189
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, you know, let’s get into some social dynamics of the town.

133
00:10:01.590 –> 00:10:07.920
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So… Supposedly, there was some resentment towards Sue, and tension with neighbors.

134
00:10:08.060 –> 00:10:11.870
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Jealousy, rumors floating about.

135
00:10:12.370 –> 00:10:17.839
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, I don’t know exactly what this jealousy was stemming from.

136
00:10:19.030 –> 00:10:27.090
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But I could only guess that it might have been her neighbor, and a little thing happening there between her neighbor’s husband.

137
00:10:27.750 –> 00:10:30.589
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Who went up being a suspect for a minute.

138
00:10:31.060 –> 00:10:34.910
15MinutesOfMurder.com: From the things that I’ve seen, I… I will kind of…

139
00:10:36.950 –> 00:10:47.600
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I don’t know… I would kind of describe Sue as maybe, like, a hot girl. I get from her that she was, like, maybe pretty, and, like, the new girl in town.

140
00:10:47.600 –> 00:11:08.120
15MinutesOfMurder.com: That’s the vibe that I get from her. And you know how it is when it’s the… even, like, think about when we were in high school or elementary school, when the new person comes, everyone is like, a new person, let me look at that person. But I get that vibe from Sue, that she was just, like, that girl.

141
00:11:08.120 –> 00:11:20.629
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Whether because she’s Sue Sharp and just that girl, or if she was that girl because she was new in this community. But I get that, that it was a lot of…

142
00:11:20.630 –> 00:11:23.339
15MinutesOfMurder.com: jealousy around Sue.

143
00:11:23.930 –> 00:11:25.310
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And, you know, there’s.

144
00:11:25.350 –> 00:11:29.249
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Obviously, things floating around of…

145
00:11:29.250 –> 00:11:33.959
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Possible drug activity, transient residents, in and out.

146
00:11:35.050 –> 00:11:47.770
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And, you know, you mix a lot of that, you don’t know how much she got mixed into, and I also wonder if she knew that’s what she was coming into, being that, you know, she had family in Keddie. Did she know that’s the kind of town she was walking into with her kids?

147
00:11:49.840 –> 00:11:53.460
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, I don’t know if,

148
00:11:54.460 –> 00:12:11.519
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Because, see, what I don’t know is how long her family was in that area, right? So, if her family was there long enough to know that this was kind of like a shady population, and they were just like, hey, sis, bring the kids to come out here.

149
00:12:11.520 –> 00:12:21.200
15MinutesOfMurder.com: But it definitely is… was a shady population, and I think somewhere I read, it was… because the…

150
00:12:22.010 –> 00:12:26.540
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Sheriff. The sheriff lived there in cabin 28 previously.

151
00:12:26.610 –> 00:12:46.440
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And it was some kind of sputtlebutt about the sheriff living in cabin 28, and therefore being surrounded around a lot of lawlessness amongst the community, with him living in 28. So it was, you know, it was a shady… a shady environment.

152
00:12:49.480 –> 00:12:51.090
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Got anything there, Greg?

153
00:12:51.780 –> 00:12:52.660
15MinutesofMurder.com: Who, me?

154
00:12:53.070 –> 00:12:54.020
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, you!

155
00:12:55.610 –> 00:12:59.439
15MinutesofMurder.com: No, I’m just… I’m just listening in.

156
00:12:59.440 –> 00:13:01.589
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I’m just an avid listener!

157
00:13:01.590 –> 00:13:02.770
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Have a listener.

158
00:13:03.780 –> 00:13:05.169
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, go ahead.

159
00:13:05.840 –> 00:13:24.430
15MinutesOfMurder.com: No, so I was gonna say, like, one of the things as you’re setting up, and going into the intro of this stuff that we’re talking about, something that has always stuck in my head is the husband’s name is John. I’m sorry, James. James Sharp is…

160
00:13:24.460 –> 00:13:32.820
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Sue’s ex-husband and this military person. What do we know about his discharge, whatever, from the military?

161
00:13:33.200 –> 00:13:34.160
15MinutesOfMurder.com: You know?

162
00:13:34.830 –> 00:13:37.229
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I don’t know much about what.

163
00:13:37.230 –> 00:13:37.940
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah!

164
00:13:37.940 –> 00:13:38.280
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: them.

165
00:13:38.280 –> 00:13:57.130
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Like, I’m wondering what was… because it was the allegations that he was abusive to Sue and the children. And, you know, the military, they have a whole other set of rules, like, you can’t be over here with this mess, right? So I’m wondering if, like, he was discharged from the military.

166
00:13:57.130 –> 00:14:00.120
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And… and what that looked like.

167
00:14:00.400 –> 00:14:07.010
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, that is definitely… that is definitely interesting, and you also wonder, like, what…

168
00:14:09.240 –> 00:14:13.809
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Did he have any role in or a say with her taking the kids, or was it, you know.

169
00:14:13.810 –> 00:14:14.360
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

170
00:14:14.360 –> 00:14:15.279
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: up and left.

171
00:14:16.120 –> 00:14:23.730
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Because even, like, how much contact would he have had with those kids? Because what we know about children, they gonna run they mouth.

172
00:14:23.730 –> 00:14:24.130
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

173
00:14:24.140 –> 00:14:33.009
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And they gonna tell everything. And if he was on the phone with any of those kids at any time, and Sue had some mess going on in and out that house.

174
00:14:33.140 –> 00:14:39.190
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Dad, Mommy was hanging out with so-and-so and so-and-so, and Mommy was, you know what I’m saying?

175
00:14:39.190 –> 00:14:48.370
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But we have to remember, too, it’s 1981, or, you know, the early 80s, and we didn’t have, like, quick, you know, call up dad on FaceTime and tell him all about…

176
00:14:48.370 –> 00:15:06.950
15MinutesOfMurder.com: But even if it… even if it was a payphone call once or twice a month, kids are always kids. Kids are always going to tell, so even if it was that monthly call, it would have been, Mommy, daddy, I mean, Daddy, mommy has been hanging out with these people.

177
00:15:07.010 –> 00:15:11.350
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And as far as the investigation goes,

178
00:15:11.630 –> 00:15:21.309
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Was James ever part of that, and did he ever report back to the investigators any information that the kids would have given him?

179
00:15:21.410 –> 00:15:24.550
15MinutesOfMurder.com: about… the company Sue was keeping?

180
00:15:25.030 –> 00:15:27.190
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Like, just where is James?

181
00:15:27.190 –> 00:15:32.120
15MinutesofMurder.com: I think that’s a good question, like, all the research I did and all of the

182
00:15:32.530 –> 00:15:44.380
15MinutesofMurder.com: background I read about this case, they mentioned him, and they mentioned that she moved a pretty long distance from the east coast of the U.S. all the way out to Keddie, California.

183
00:15:44.380 –> 00:15:55.530
15MinutesofMurder.com: Which I believe is, like, northern mid-California somewhere? Yes. Up in the mountains. But that was the extent of it, just that he was abusive, and that she…

184
00:15:55.590 –> 00:15:57.890
15MinutesofMurder.com: She bounced and took the kids with her.

185
00:15:58.690 –> 00:16:05.929
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, because I’mma tell y’all, when I’m working cases, and I really want to find out some good stuff about someone.

186
00:16:05.930 –> 00:16:21.629
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I will go into the family court side, because typically courts have two sides. The criminal side… well, maybe three. Criminal, civil, and then family. So I would then go into the family court side, and run a person’s name to see

187
00:16:21.630 –> 00:16:36.420
15MinutesOfMurder.com: If there were any divorce filings, any paternity filings, any child support filings, and I will go and talk to that person and get tons of information from those people. So, essentially.

188
00:16:36.800 –> 00:16:47.299
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I’m going to find your baby mama or your baby daddy to give me all of the tea on you, as an investigative tool. And I think that

189
00:16:48.040 –> 00:16:50.710
15MinutesOfMurder.com: If they didn’t do that with James, they may have missed.

190
00:16:51.860 –> 00:16:53.749
15MinutesOfMurder.com: A lot of information.

191
00:16:54.000 –> 00:17:00.679
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, and I mean, you know, we’re quick to be like, you know, what was James like, what was James like? But, you know, I mean…

192
00:17:01.880 –> 00:17:02.830
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I don’t.

193
00:17:03.200 –> 00:17:05.549
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Think he would have anything to do

194
00:17:05.700 –> 00:17:11.469
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: with this, and I don’t recall in anything I read them questioning

195
00:17:11.660 –> 00:17:17.289
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Or looking at him as a suspect. But also the fact that, you know.

196
00:17:17.410 –> 00:17:22.689
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: a lot of people, and a lot of things that I’ve read in the specific site

197
00:17:23.030 –> 00:17:29.409
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: where I read that, you know, she wasn’t exactly the ideal mom who everybody painted her out to be.

198
00:17:29.630 –> 00:17:41.149
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And that she was actually renowned for leaving her kids, and banning… abandoning her kids, and leaving them at home to fend for themselves, and that she spent most of her time with her best friend.

199
00:17:41.280 –> 00:17:47.120
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: her best friend named Nina. So… I mean, you just don’t…

200
00:17:47.560 –> 00:17:50.209
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: really know what happened, you know?

201
00:17:50.210 –> 00:17:50.910
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

202
00:17:52.760 –> 00:18:01.690
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But when people are saying, you know, I mean, people are quick to say when you leave your kids, when you’re not a good mom, people are quick to, you know, point that out, and just, you know, spread that.

203
00:18:02.290 –> 00:18:16.730
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, and then, I mean, again, you just said it, it’s 1981, so was she leaving her kids, or was she just like… because, you know, in 1981, leaving your kids… I mean…

204
00:18:17.470 –> 00:18:21.740
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I mean, I was a latchkey kid. I had the greenestring on my neck.

205
00:18:21.740 –> 00:18:40.749
15MinutesOfMurder.com: In 1981, it was, you leave the house in the morning when you wake up, and then you come back at maybe streetlight time, or something like that. So to say that she left the kids, right? Looking back at it from my 2025 perspective.

206
00:18:40.750 –> 00:18:41.080
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

207
00:18:41.080 –> 00:18:45.379
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I don’t… I don’t really know… What that means.

208
00:18:47.840 –> 00:18:49.780
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Like, left the kids.

209
00:18:49.970 –> 00:18:52.669
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Because we were all left, if that’s the case.

210
00:18:53.500 –> 00:19:04.690
15MinutesofMurder.com: Yeah, certainly. I had an older brother, and the second my parents were gone, and he was supposed to be watching me, he was gone, and down the street with his friends, so I was home.

211
00:19:05.170 –> 00:19:15.080
15MinutesofMurder.com: Home alone all the time, until, like, the neighbor teenage girl would come over and sort of, like, babysit me until my parents would come home.

212
00:19:15.680 –> 00:19:16.330
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

213
00:19:17.080 –> 00:19:30.420
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, so I kind of want to give Sue some credit on that. I don’t want to necessarily say, oh, she was a neglectful mama, and she was ripping and running the streets.

214
00:19:31.050 –> 00:19:31.480
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

215
00:19:31.510 –> 00:19:36.300
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I don’t want to go there with Sue just… just yet.

216
00:19:36.520 –> 00:19:37.280
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

217
00:19:37.660 –> 00:19:41.809
15MinutesofMurder.com: I was looking for a little more information on the husband.

218
00:19:42.060 –> 00:19:45.930
15MinutesofMurder.com: And the only thing I could find is what we already talked about.

219
00:19:46.520 –> 00:19:53.540
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It’s very… it’s very slim, there’s really not a lot out there about him, you know, just that… basically…

220
00:19:54.880 –> 00:20:00.380
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: she left him, and we’re trying to look for something better. I’ve read that she even stayed with his parents.

221
00:20:00.590 –> 00:20:01.390
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: For a little bit.

222
00:20:01.390 –> 00:20:02.060
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Oh, really?

223
00:20:02.060 –> 00:20:03.469
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

224
00:20:03.470 –> 00:20:07.249
15MinutesofMurder.com: She was a stay-at-home mom while he was in the military.

225
00:20:08.140 –> 00:20:08.820
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

226
00:20:08.970 –> 00:20:11.840
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Interesting.

227
00:20:12.800 –> 00:20:18.060
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But, yeah, there’s just a lot about, like, her mothering…

228
00:20:18.690 –> 00:20:25.410
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And sad to say, like, when you have a lot of… it makes me wonder if people were talking bad about her being a mom.

229
00:20:26.260 –> 00:20:32.839
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: B… Are they recalling her being a bad mom because of what happened, or if they really thought that?

230
00:20:34.420 –> 00:20:36.300
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right, and so, like.

231
00:20:36.310 –> 00:20:45.949
15MinutesOfMurder.com: basically, like, an implied truth, kind of. Like, oh, well, now that this has happened, hindsight, I guess she was a bad mom, because…

232
00:20:45.950 –> 00:20:56.739
15MinutesOfMurder.com: how else could this have happened if she wasn’t a bad mom? And that’s… I feel that’s a sad and unfair assessment, right? .

233
00:20:57.910 –> 00:21:03.869
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I mean, because when you think about it, you could say somebody’s a bad mom all they want, but with that amount of kids.

234
00:21:04.170 –> 00:21:11.560
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And… you are concerned with… she could have left and went to Keddie all on her own and left those kids wherever if she didn’t care.

235
00:21:11.970 –> 00:21:13.520
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Good luck with James.

236
00:21:13.520 –> 00:21:17.019
15MinutesOfMurder.com: She could have left them with James, she could have left them with their parents, you know, so…

237
00:21:17.020 –> 00:21:21.350
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: like you, I won’t go down that road, and, you know… And speak…

238
00:21:21.350 –> 00:21:21.820
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

239
00:21:21.820 –> 00:21:23.479
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: in that way.

240
00:21:23.480 –> 00:21:26.900
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, because that, that parenting thing, you, you, you.

241
00:21:26.960 –> 00:21:47.749
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I like to kind of shy away from that, because, you know, I got 4 kids and a husband, and it’s hard, right? So I can only imagine, what it would be like as a single mother with 4 or 5 children and very little income. So, I definitely want to give Sue Grace and the benefit of the doubt on that.

242
00:21:47.750 –> 00:21:54.190
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, the children, the children she had from teens down to little ones.

243
00:21:54.440 –> 00:21:59.290
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And, we’ll just, like, recap the activities of that evening.

244
00:21:59.500 –> 00:22:05.200
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, what we do know is that on that evening, John and Dana went to hitchhike.

245
00:22:05.310 –> 00:22:09.970
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: hang out in Quincy, where I think that’s where her brother had lived.

246
00:22:10.710 –> 00:22:14.319
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Small place out there. And they went to go hang out with some friends.

247
00:22:14.580 –> 00:22:20.829
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And the… the… their friends that claimed that there was possible

248
00:22:21.160 –> 00:22:25.500
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: encounters with drug-involved teens. I don’t know a lot about that.

249
00:22:25.700 –> 00:22:31.150
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And that, that the friend, Dana, was seen with some sketchy individuals.

250
00:22:31.750 –> 00:22:33.569
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: some street locals, so…

251
00:22:34.160 –> 00:22:39.869
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, and this… this side of town, where this activity

252
00:22:40.010 –> 00:22:55.559
15MinutesOfMurder.com: where the kids were hitchhiking to and going to party to. That’s the side of the town that everyone alleges that Sue would, you know, when she was abandoning the kids, that that’s where she would go, on this side of town.

253
00:22:55.900 –> 00:23:01.719
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And it was some, like, conflicting ev- I mean, conflicting information about…

254
00:23:02.470 –> 00:23:12.320
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: How the boys got back home, and who took them back home, and was that… those sketchy people they were with, and the sketchy problem.

255
00:23:12.320 –> 00:23:13.139
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Out of town.

256
00:23:13.380 –> 00:23:19.060
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I mean, that’s true, too, if the kids were, like, involved in something that mom didn’t know about.

257
00:23:19.390 –> 00:23:23.069
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: did the kids owe money? Did the kids, you know.

258
00:23:23.860 –> 00:23:26.540
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Too cocky out there, like, we don’t know.

259
00:23:26.790 –> 00:23:33.610
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And how… and who exactly was Dana Wingate, like… Like, they couldn’t have been…

260
00:23:33.860 –> 00:23:37.659
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: you know, lifelong friends. These are new… this has to be a new friend.

261
00:23:37.920 –> 00:23:41.739
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, you don’t know who he was, or what he was into.

262
00:23:41.970 –> 00:23:43.900
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Or what he got John into.

263
00:23:44.660 –> 00:23:50.129
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, well… the, the, Sharp family are the new people.

264
00:23:50.450 –> 00:23:51.570
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

265
00:23:52.210 –> 00:23:58.450
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So, if those people were newer than the sharps, then they were complete strangers.

266
00:23:58.840 –> 00:23:59.860
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, excellent.

267
00:23:59.860 –> 00:24:00.839
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Because they had…

268
00:24:02.150 –> 00:24:08.349
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: What’d you say? I’m not really sure how Dana came in, like, if he was just, like, one of the kids in the town.

269
00:24:08.830 –> 00:24:09.600
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

270
00:24:09.600 –> 00:24:10.310
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Keddy?

271
00:24:10.460 –> 00:24:15.870
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: that John happened to be friends, you know, and what John… and what Dana was into.

272
00:24:15.970 –> 00:24:17.480
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I mean, we don’t know that either.

273
00:24:17.760 –> 00:24:21.910
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, cause, I mean, you could… you could… Go off on any angle.

274
00:24:22.520 –> 00:24:32.159
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And be like, oh, it was the kids… it was the kids hanging out with the wrong people, or it was Sheila hanging out with the wrong people. It was the neighbors who were jealous, you know? There’s just…

275
00:24:32.600 –> 00:24:33.130
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, let’s.

276
00:24:33.130 –> 00:24:46.650
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, and that’s what has frustrated me from the top to the bottom about this case, because it has just been left with so many possibilities, right? So, at some point.

277
00:24:46.710 –> 00:25:00.420
15MinutesOfMurder.com: a… so if we start off with 10 theories or 10 possibilities, at some point, a thorough investigation will narrow that down. So now we went from 10 to now we’re at 6.

278
00:25:01.050 –> 00:25:11.599
15MinutesOfMurder.com: But with this case, all of these possibilities and all of these theories have been just left to fester and survive 40 years later.

279
00:25:12.530 –> 00:25:20.509
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, we’ve got John and Dana, who went off, and they were out hitchhiking, doing whatever, you know, young fellas do in the 80s.

280
00:25:21.370 –> 00:25:28.069
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And, you know, you got Sue and the younger kids at home watching TV. Now, Sue, her younger, two younger boys.

281
00:25:28.470 –> 00:25:36.020
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And their friend just… And, you know, I guess they’re all watching, you know, TV, just sitting at home.

282
00:25:36.330 –> 00:25:39.470
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And I guess Sheila…

283
00:25:40.370 –> 00:25:46.790
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: was over at a friend’s house. Now, the thing with Sheila being at the friend’s house is that I had read that Tina

284
00:25:46.890 –> 00:25:52.760
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Tina, the young daughter, the youngest daughter, usually slept over at the neighbor’s house.

285
00:25:53.210 –> 00:25:56.569
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And Sheila never had anything to do with them.

286
00:25:57.450 –> 00:26:02.380
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And that’s because Sheila was new into Caddy.

287
00:26:03.780 –> 00:26:06.189
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So, Sheila was away.

288
00:26:06.580 –> 00:26:13.820
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Depending on if this is a theory that you believe, Sheila was away in another state having her baby.

289
00:26:14.780 –> 00:26:17.890
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And she visited the caddy Cat.

290
00:26:17.890 –> 00:26:18.349
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Wait a minute.

291
00:26:18.350 –> 00:26:18.920
15MinutesOfMurder.com: one.

292
00:26:19.230 –> 00:26:19.950
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Huh?

293
00:26:20.210 –> 00:26:21.610
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, Sheila has a baby.

294
00:26:25.320 –> 00:26:32.919
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So, here, girl, here go the tea. So… Sue’s friends the meats.

295
00:26:32.920 –> 00:26:33.600
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Huh.

296
00:26:34.180 –> 00:26:49.200
15MinutesOfMurder.com: The Meeks had a boy in the family. I want to say Richard, don’t quote me on that, but he… there was a son in the Meeks family that is allegedly the baby’s dad of Sheila, got Sheila pregnant.

297
00:26:49.630 –> 00:27:06.950
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Sue then sent… she… yeah, Sue sent Sheila to Oregon to stay with relatives there and have the baby. So by the time… yeah, so by the time Sue and the rest of the family moved into caddy.

298
00:27:07.210 –> 00:27:09.769
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Sheila was away in Oregon.

299
00:27:10.480 –> 00:27:25.990
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So she came to visit them, like, December, maybe the Christmas, because the murders happened in April. So then, Sheila would have went to visit them around Christmas, so that would have been Christmas of 1980.

300
00:27:26.700 –> 00:27:45.879
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Then 19… then April of 1981 is when the murders happened, and a few weeks before the murders happened, so now we’re in late March of 1981, is when Sheila moved in to caddy with the rest of the family.

301
00:27:46.130 –> 00:27:49.159
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So then that makes it even stranger.

302
00:27:49.160 –> 00:27:50.260
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Even stranger.

303
00:27:50.260 –> 00:27:52.950
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: neighbors. And… no baby.

304
00:27:54.180 –> 00:27:55.470
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And no baby.

305
00:27:55.730 –> 00:28:13.709
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So… so that’s… that’s a whole nother theory, right? Where, supposedly, the meek family was pissed off at Sue for putting this baby up for adoption, because the Meek family wanted the baby.

306
00:28:13.710 –> 00:28:20.929
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And the Meek family saw this baby as the first grandbaby of the family.

307
00:28:20.930 –> 00:28:21.830
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Oh, wow.

308
00:28:26.710 –> 00:28:28.880
15MinutesofMurder.com: Where did… where did the Meek family live?

309
00:28:29.250 –> 00:28:31.739
15MinutesOfMurder.com: They lived on…

310
00:28:32.030 –> 00:28:47.549
15MinutesOfMurder.com: The best way for me to describe it is that they would have lived on that sketchier side of town. Not to say that the caddy Cabin ain’t the sketchy, because obviously it is, but they live on that other side of the town.

311
00:28:48.630 –> 00:28:48.950
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yay!

312
00:28:48.950 –> 00:28:49.290
15MinutesofMurder.com: Yeah, because…

313
00:28:49.290 –> 00:28:56.359
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Now that you say that, it makes it even stranger to me, because, you know, my mind started going to, like, what Sheila into.

314
00:28:56.490 –> 00:29:13.540
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And so, I was reading that, you know, it was typically Tina, because the neighbors had younger kids, that Tina would go over, and always spend the night there, and, you know, hang out there. But that night, while Tina was there, Sheila went over.

315
00:29:13.680 –> 00:29:17.580
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: and sent Tina home, And Sheila stayed there.

316
00:29:18.560 –> 00:29:23.049
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So… Tina… Would have been spared

317
00:29:23.650 –> 00:29:28.070
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Had she stayed like she typically would at the neighbor’s house.

318
00:29:28.760 –> 00:29:29.460
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

319
00:29:29.460 –> 00:29:31.040
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But Sheila sent her home.

320
00:29:31.580 –> 00:29:32.540
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Correct.

321
00:29:32.780 –> 00:29:33.990
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Which is odd.

322
00:29:34.510 –> 00:29:43.329
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Which is odd. She… Sheila sent Tina home from the cabin that was right next door.

323
00:29:43.330 –> 00:29:44.540
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: directly next door.

324
00:29:44.870 –> 00:29:49.910
15MinutesOfMurder.com: To them, and no one in that home

325
00:29:50.400 –> 00:29:59.779
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Allegedly heard any noise, any bumping up against the wall, any… anything coming out of that house.

326
00:30:00.790 –> 00:30:07.749
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And what was also… something to me about the sea bolts.

327
00:30:08.720 –> 00:30:12.980
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Is that… because that’s the family who lived in that cabin next door.

328
00:30:13.790 –> 00:30:21.810
15MinutesOfMurder.com: They said… I got it in my notes, because it stuck out to me crazy. Y’all, give me one second.

329
00:30:23.270 –> 00:30:28.730
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, too, you, like, have to wonder, like, was… Sue expecting anybody?

330
00:30:28.990 –> 00:30:34.430
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Did… was somebody… was she dating anybody? Was… We don’t know.

331
00:30:34.430 –> 00:30:42.909
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So… According to the timeline that I have, Sheila went to the Seabolt’s house at around 8pm.

332
00:30:44.250 –> 00:30:51.680
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Then the Seabolts reported seeing a weird green van.

333
00:30:52.200 –> 00:30:57.499
15MinutesOfMurder.com: outside of cabin 28 at around 9 PM.

334
00:30:59.230 –> 00:31:04.729
15MinutesOfMurder.com: then Tina is sent home at 9.30.

335
00:31:08.660 –> 00:31:11.500
15MinutesofMurder.com: Which is late for a 12-year-old, right?

336
00:31:11.850 –> 00:31:15.770
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I think she was 10. Yo, no, she was 12.

337
00:31:15.930 –> 00:31:21.369
15MinutesOfMurder.com: But not only that, this is what struck me. This is a town of 100 people.

338
00:31:21.950 –> 00:31:25.849
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So that means we… we’re very… we’re a close-knit community, right?

339
00:31:26.280 –> 00:31:33.539
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So, if I… noticed a vehicle that I hadn’t seen before.

340
00:31:33.640 –> 00:31:46.170
15MinutesOfMurder.com: outside my neighbor’s home, and then the next morning, I found out that that neighbor’s home, that that weird vehicle was parked in front of, people were murdered and slaughtered in that vehicle.

341
00:31:47.120 –> 00:31:47.680
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Right.

342
00:31:47.920 –> 00:31:48.809
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I mean, slaughtered in that.

343
00:31:48.810 –> 00:31:49.700
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: out.

344
00:31:50.310 –> 00:31:51.400
15MinutesOfMurder.com: What’d you say?

345
00:31:51.400 –> 00:31:54.480
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So where’s the ABV? Where’s the ABP?

346
00:31:54.820 –> 00:32:02.309
15MinutesOfMurder.com: AP. Right, because… because… If we’re a small town like that.

347
00:32:02.800 –> 00:32:06.529
15MinutesOfMurder.com: whose green van is that? I’ve never seen that green van.

348
00:32:06.880 –> 00:32:07.510
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

349
00:32:07.780 –> 00:32:22.639
15MinutesOfMurder.com: If someone pulls up in a green van in front of my house right now, I might just look out the window and be pissed off that someone parked in front of my house, right? But I live in a larger… a larger city. But in a small town like that.

350
00:32:22.870 –> 00:32:23.550
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And then…

351
00:32:23.550 –> 00:32:27.340
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: First place I’m gonna go is to Quincy, start looking for a green van.

352
00:32:27.690 –> 00:32:28.990
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Grand Green Van.

353
00:32:29.460 –> 00:32:36.410
15MinutesOfMurder.com: But also, when… Tina was sent out to go home.

354
00:32:37.380 –> 00:32:40.430
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And you saw that weird, awkward van.

355
00:32:40.430 –> 00:32:41.389
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Oh, yeah, yeah.

356
00:32:42.600 –> 00:32:46.069
15MinutesOfMurder.com: not like, Tina, hold on. Hey, I’m finna walk Tina home.

357
00:32:46.070 –> 00:32:46.400
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Right.

358
00:32:46.400 –> 00:32:48.850
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Carl, you know, it’s just…

359
00:32:49.920 –> 00:32:53.110
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, and we don’t know how long that car was out there, or…

360
00:32:55.930 –> 00:33:02.590
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So, did someone send Tina away to be murdered?

361
00:33:06.480 –> 00:33:07.320
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I mean…

362
00:33:07.320 –> 00:33:10.950
15MinutesofMurder.com: Tina was ultimately not murdered at first, right?

363
00:33:11.230 –> 00:33:12.350
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: We don’t know that.

364
00:33:12.350 –> 00:33:13.150
15MinutesOfMurder.com: We don’t know that.

365
00:33:13.150 –> 00:33:16.080
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: at first and dumped? Or she could have been…

366
00:33:16.420 –> 00:33:18.860
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Held for who knows how long?

367
00:33:19.370 –> 00:33:22.620
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: She could have escaped from her captors.

368
00:33:23.430 –> 00:33:26.729
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: and… died on her own? You just…

369
00:33:27.120 –> 00:33:34.209
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Well, we know that… that she at least tried to escape because the back pocket of her jeans was ripped.

370
00:33:34.960 –> 00:33:35.380
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

371
00:33:35.380 –> 00:33:38.329
15MinutesOfMurder.com: When they found her remains, so…

372
00:33:38.680 –> 00:33:41.820
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Somebody… she was trying to get away from someone.

373
00:33:42.430 –> 00:33:43.340
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

374
00:33:46.090 –> 00:33:55.850
15MinutesOfMurder.com: But yeah, I think… I think that timeline right there, that hour and a half timeline, has been sticking with me since I started.

375
00:33:56.630 –> 00:33:59.120
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Doing my homework on this case.

376
00:33:59.810 –> 00:34:06.380
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, there were witnesses who did, you know, report that they saw a bearded man with glasses.

377
00:34:06.530 –> 00:34:07.939
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Earlier in the week.

378
00:34:08.120 –> 00:34:10.539
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Seen around the Sharps cabin.

379
00:34:11.300 –> 00:34:17.480
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: No, you know, no leads were really ever followed up properly to…

380
00:34:18.570 –> 00:34:23.980
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Check and see who that was, who the green van was. And then again, we don’t have a lot of…

381
00:34:24.670 –> 00:34:27.949
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: We don’t have a lot of the case files.

382
00:34:28.219 –> 00:34:38.130
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: To know who they interviewed, or what they, you know, Or what they actually… dead.

383
00:34:38.130 –> 00:34:38.659
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Nope.

384
00:34:39.050 –> 00:34:43.170
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Regarding the beginning, the first 48, so to speak, hours of that case.

385
00:34:43.170 –> 00:34:44.040
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

386
00:34:46.100 –> 00:34:54.450
15MinutesOfMurder.com: No, we don’t know. And part of that is because, back to the seabolts.

387
00:34:54.820 –> 00:35:04.890
15MinutesOfMurder.com: When Sheila made her discovery, and she went and reported it to them, do you know that they didn’t call… it took an hour before… before they called the cops?

388
00:35:06.550 –> 00:35:08.099
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: How in the world?

389
00:35:09.000 –> 00:35:11.070
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: What are you doing for an hour?

390
00:35:11.250 –> 00:35:21.629
15MinutesOfMurder.com: What are you doing? And they are the people who went back… so Sheila reported what she saw to them, and that their… the boys were in the bedroom.

391
00:35:22.530 –> 00:35:31.930
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So they went back and retrieved these kids, so you would have seen this scene, and you not call the cops for a whole hour?

392
00:35:31.930 –> 00:35:37.349
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: How do you pull the kids out without… I mean, they walk through the living room and see…

393
00:35:37.580 –> 00:35:39.270
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Everything that’s happened.

394
00:35:39.840 –> 00:35:40.469
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But let’s.

395
00:35:40.470 –> 00:35:41.419
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Well, I just…

396
00:35:41.660 –> 00:35:43.880
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Let’s talk about the… I’m sorry, go ahead, Craig.

397
00:35:43.880 –> 00:35:48.450
15MinutesofMurder.com: No, I was gonna say, maybe we should, just for people listening at home, describe sort of what.

398
00:35:48.450 –> 00:35:49.550
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, I’m gonna talk.

399
00:35:49.550 –> 00:35:50.150
15MinutesofMurder.com: What happened?

400
00:35:50.150 –> 00:35:50.600
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: vaccine.

401
00:35:50.600 –> 00:35:51.110
15MinutesofMurder.com: Yeah.

402
00:35:51.110 –> 00:35:53.159
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, the crime scene…

403
00:35:53.850 –> 00:35:59.259
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: They were found, the family was found on April 12th by Sheila. She was at the neighbor’s.

404
00:35:59.430 –> 00:36:01.979
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: She got up in the morning, she walked.

405
00:36:02.150 –> 00:36:06.809
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: home, opened the door, and found her mom, John.

406
00:36:08.010 –> 00:36:09.399
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Slaughtered in the living room.

407
00:36:09.840 –> 00:36:11.989
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And bound with medical tape.

408
00:36:12.390 –> 00:36:18.130
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Bludgeoned, stab wounds, blunt force trauma, Blood splatter everywhere.

409
00:36:18.490 –> 00:36:19.340
15MinutesOfMurder.com: everywhere.

410
00:36:19.620 –> 00:36:23.949
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: everywhere. That… It literally looked like there was just…

411
00:36:24.570 –> 00:36:26.759
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Complete struggle and hours of torture.

412
00:36:27.910 –> 00:36:31.019
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: There was a knife that was bent in half, like.

413
00:36:31.420 –> 00:36:40.339
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Do you know how much force it takes to bend a knife in half when you’re stabbing somebody? That’s violent. That is brutal. That is hatred.

414
00:36:40.610 –> 00:36:43.130
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: That is zero regard for human life.

415
00:36:43.700 –> 00:36:46.690
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And zero regard for a mother and children.

416
00:36:47.440 –> 00:36:50.430
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: A hammer was used.

417
00:36:51.850 –> 00:36:57.200
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: To murder with a hammer, that is… That’s monstrous.

418
00:36:58.450 –> 00:37:03.100
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, and in, in, in my work,

419
00:37:03.520 –> 00:37:09.389
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Knives stabbings are some of the most personal

420
00:37:09.590 –> 00:37:21.770
15MinutesOfMurder.com: crimes, right? We know… if I’m working a case, and my… the victim in my case has been stabbed, I immediately think of the most

421
00:37:21.890 –> 00:37:39.239
15MinutesOfMurder.com: closest people to that victim. Who has the most access to him? Who… whether that is physical or just, like, in the family, in the friend unit? Because a stabbing is… is a very intimate…

422
00:37:39.600 –> 00:37:42.219
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It is a very intimate crime.

423
00:37:42.940 –> 00:37:48.730
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And so, you know, there were… Multiple stab wounds, multiple, just…

424
00:37:50.860 –> 00:37:51.890
15MinutesOfMurder.com: It’s hard to talk about.

425
00:37:52.520 –> 00:37:59.220
15MinutesOfMurder.com: One of Sue’s wounds was so deep that it touched her spine.

426
00:37:59.400 –> 00:38:01.939
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Like, that is the force.

427
00:38:03.920 –> 00:38:05.060
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And I mean…

428
00:38:07.250 –> 00:38:16.909
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And just think about your torso, your body right now, like, where your spine is, you know what I’m saying? Like, someone would have to force that knife.

429
00:38:17.550 –> 00:38:22.670
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Through your torso, through your chest cavity, or wherever.

430
00:38:23.200 –> 00:38:25.390
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And reach your spine.

431
00:38:25.850 –> 00:38:28.540
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And your spine is deep in there for a reason.

432
00:38:28.800 –> 00:38:29.670
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, yeah.

433
00:38:30.340 –> 00:38:33.400
15MinutesofMurder.com: I mean, that knife in the pictures…

434
00:38:33.550 –> 00:38:37.549
15MinutesofMurder.com: It almost looks like they would have had to, like, push down on them.

435
00:38:38.560 –> 00:38:42.329
15MinutesofMurder.com: Just cave them in a little bit to reach down in that deep.

436
00:38:42.570 –> 00:38:45.010
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, I don’t even know how… how you would…

437
00:38:45.730 –> 00:38:55.120
15MinutesOfMurder.com: the direction and motion you would need to spab someone to get to a spine. Like, I don’t even… medically, I don’t even know how that’s possible.

438
00:38:55.150 –> 00:39:08.530
15MinutesOfMurder.com: If nothing else, like I said, we were created for our spines to be hidden and protected, because they are literally the backbone, right, of our existence. And for you to reach that.

439
00:39:10.120 –> 00:39:12.889
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, with that, and the mom.

440
00:39:13.980 –> 00:39:18.180
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Murdered in the living room. Friend, and, you know, her son.

441
00:39:18.540 –> 00:39:23.339
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Two younger boys, or three younger boys, We’re in the room.

442
00:39:23.790 –> 00:39:24.470
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yes.

443
00:39:24.630 –> 00:39:26.979
15MinutesofMurder.com: There was a back… a bedroom in the back.

444
00:39:26.980 –> 00:39:30.409
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: the entire time. Now, it wasn’t like they were in…

445
00:39:30.520 –> 00:39:36.399
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: you know, in a… in a joined room to the living room and the bedroom, correct? It was, like.

446
00:39:36.600 –> 00:39:40.280
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Far back in the cabin towards the back of the house, right?

447
00:39:41.510 –> 00:39:42.200
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

448
00:39:43.120 –> 00:39:44.020
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So…

449
00:39:44.020 –> 00:39:57.199
15MinutesOfMurder.com: just for our viewers who are, like, love timelines and accuracy and things like that, Sheila allegedly returned home that morning to make this discovery at 10 AM.

450
00:39:59.690 –> 00:40:08.159
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So the kids, so you’re thinking, kids, now that I’m thinking, like, you know, kids are early birds, especially that age.

451
00:40:08.160 –> 00:40:09.040
15MinutesofMurder.com: That young, yeah.

452
00:40:09.040 –> 00:40:10.029
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Children that were to…

453
00:40:10.780 –> 00:40:14.950
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: There’s… No way they didn’t get up and walk around that house.

454
00:40:15.050 –> 00:40:16.340
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Before Sheila got there.

455
00:40:17.220 –> 00:40:17.710
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Impossible.

456
00:40:18.450 –> 00:40:19.539
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: what was happening.

457
00:40:20.000 –> 00:40:27.890
15MinutesofMurder.com: The neighbor, the neighbor was a deceived father, was the one that went to the back door to get the boys out?

458
00:40:28.790 –> 00:40:32.910
15MinutesofMurder.com: The boys that survived came out the back door, they didn’t want to take them through…

459
00:40:33.400 –> 00:40:37.039
15MinutesofMurder.com: The house to see the murder scene, essentially.

460
00:40:37.180 –> 00:40:38.600
15MinutesofMurder.com: Is what I read.

461
00:40:39.220 –> 00:40:49.449
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, and so I get that, but what also I don’t get about that is if you walk into the home.

462
00:40:49.570 –> 00:40:58.219
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And you see all of that carnage, and you see in this other room over there that there are alive.

463
00:40:58.380 –> 00:41:03.729
15MinutesOfMurder.com: people. You just leave them there, you don’t say, come on, y’all, let’s go, let’s go, let’s get out of here.

464
00:41:04.560 –> 00:41:05.769
15MinutesOfMurder.com: You… what do you…

465
00:41:05.810 –> 00:41:07.969
15MinutesofMurder.com: She… she left and went to get…

466
00:41:08.290 –> 00:41:10.500
15MinutesofMurder.com: She went back next door, right?

467
00:41:11.480 –> 00:41:13.810
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right, she went back next door.

468
00:41:13.970 –> 00:41:16.809
15MinutesOfMurder.com: But if she would have saw them.

469
00:41:17.050 –> 00:41:28.779
15MinutesOfMurder.com: why wouldn’t it have been, come on, y’all, let’s get out of here. Or if they saw her seeing them, then why didn’t they say, don’t leave, Sheila, don’t leave, take us with… you know what I’m… like, it…

470
00:41:30.710 –> 00:41:32.000
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You mean the boys?

471
00:41:32.210 –> 00:41:34.409
15MinutesOfMurder.com: The boys. Yeah.

472
00:41:36.270 –> 00:41:39.369
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I don’t… it’s just so hard, because it’s just like…

473
00:41:39.550 –> 00:41:46.280
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, you want to put yourself in that situation, Like, just visually to…

474
00:41:46.410 –> 00:41:49.279
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Try and think of what you would do, or what happened.

475
00:41:49.900 –> 00:41:55.940
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But if I walk in the door, and I’ve just gone through having my own child.

476
00:41:56.280 –> 00:41:58.869
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Let alone, these are my baby brothers.

477
00:41:59.090 –> 00:42:02.889
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Like, I’m storming through there, I’m going out the back door with them.

478
00:42:03.000 –> 00:42:04.930
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Is someone still in the house?

479
00:42:05.860 –> 00:42:07.370
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Are they still there?

480
00:42:07.930 –> 00:42:08.310
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

481
00:42:08.310 –> 00:42:09.619
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Like, how do you…

482
00:42:09.620 –> 00:42:12.239
15MinutesofMurder.com: Where’s the sister? Where’s my little sister?

483
00:42:12.240 –> 00:42:14.040
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, where’s my little sister?

484
00:42:14.040 –> 00:42:21.189
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, so, so, what are they? Ricky, Greg, Justin, where’s Tina?

485
00:42:21.520 –> 00:42:22.070
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

486
00:42:22.610 –> 00:42:24.160
15MinutesofMurder.com: Yeah.

487
00:42:24.800 –> 00:42:25.810
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I mean.

488
00:42:26.500 –> 00:42:31.750
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Where, where’s Tina? So it’s, again, it’s, it’s… we could do this.

489
00:42:32.540 –> 00:42:37.130
15MinutesOfMurder.com: This catty stuff is… is… is enough to carry…

490
00:42:37.610 –> 00:42:48.130
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It’s like, it’s like, you know, the theory or whatever is that either, one, the killers weren’t threatened by young kids, or even worried about these kids being able to identify them.

491
00:42:48.530 –> 00:42:59.149
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Or, you know, be able to pick them up out of a lineup, or they knew them and were like, let the kids, you know, that’s not what we came to do, but what they.

492
00:42:59.750 –> 00:43:00.270
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Dude.

493
00:43:00.390 –> 00:43:00.929
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Like, what is.

494
00:43:00.930 –> 00:43:01.320
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

495
00:43:02.060 –> 00:43:06.770
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Well, like, why? And there goes the motive again, why?

496
00:43:07.180 –> 00:43:08.340
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Why? Yeah.

497
00:43:08.340 –> 00:43:16.800
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Why do you slaughter a mom and her two sons? Were you there to murder Sue, and the younger boys intervened, and you had no choice there?

498
00:43:17.950 –> 00:43:22.399
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: were they all sleeping? Like, when they… when the boys came home, like, what were they…

499
00:43:22.650 –> 00:43:24.250
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: What were they doing?

500
00:43:24.480 –> 00:43:26.810
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: When they were approached.

501
00:43:27.250 –> 00:43:33.410
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Or when someone broke in. Did they break in? Did they sneak in? There was no… there was no signs of breaking in.

502
00:43:33.800 –> 00:43:36.729
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So they obviously just came in.

503
00:43:37.080 –> 00:43:40.070
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right. Yeah, well, no one needed to break in.

504
00:43:40.250 –> 00:44:03.900
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Because the way the house was laid out, like, you see how the… in the pictures, the front of the cabin looks very cabin-ish, and the back of the house looks very house-ish, right? And that’s because it’s an addition back there, and the older son, I want to say is John, he lived back there, and there was only one

505
00:44:03.900 –> 00:44:06.680
15MinutesOfMurder.com: bathroom, and so they kept

506
00:44:06.730 –> 00:44:13.679
15MinutesOfMurder.com: the house open so that John could come in and out to access the bathroom and…

507
00:44:13.780 –> 00:44:20.539
15MinutesOfMurder.com: you know, the kitchen and, you know, sit around with the family, so the door would have always been open. No one would have needed

508
00:44:20.650 –> 00:44:26.059
15MinutesOfMurder.com: to break in. No, there wouldn’t have needed to be assigned a forced injury.

509
00:44:26.940 –> 00:44:31.379
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, like, thinking and knowing and knowing about the case…

510
00:44:32.790 –> 00:44:36.699
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Three… basically grown-ups, because when you’re a teenager, you’re big enough.

511
00:44:37.260 –> 00:44:41.309
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I mean, you see the boys, they’re not little, you know?

512
00:44:41.310 –> 00:44:42.989
15MinutesofMurder.com: They were 17 at the time, right?

513
00:44:42.990 –> 00:44:43.850
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, so I…

514
00:44:44.240 –> 00:44:47.290
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: They’re nearly on their way to being young men.

515
00:44:47.510 –> 00:44:50.519
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, there were multiple weapons.

516
00:44:51.000 –> 00:44:54.360
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: We… I mean, I don’t know from…

517
00:44:55.440 –> 00:44:58.539
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: experience, but I do know that

518
00:44:58.670 –> 00:45:03.340
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Murdering someone is a physical, exerted activity.

519
00:45:04.650 –> 00:45:06.750
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Because you’re fighting someone.

520
00:45:07.010 –> 00:45:08.659
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: to overtake them.

521
00:45:08.960 –> 00:45:12.580
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yes. So, can one person overtake

522
00:45:12.740 –> 00:45:16.680
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Two boys and a young mom trying to protect their kids.

523
00:45:17.040 –> 00:45:18.770
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, is there more than one?

524
00:45:21.780 –> 00:45:22.890
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

525
00:45:23.620 –> 00:45:34.539
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I would… for that scene, the way that scene looked, and the damage that was done to Sue and the children.

526
00:45:34.740 –> 00:45:48.080
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I would dare say that it was maybe 2 or 3 people in that house, because we would have needed someone to not just cause the harm, but we would have needed someone to control that scene.

527
00:45:48.570 –> 00:45:53.510
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Because otherwise, You know, someone coming out the window.

528
00:45:54.100 –> 00:46:10.180
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Someone’s running out the back door, and in fact, while we’re talking about the back door, there was a… a weird fingerprint or thumbprint on the railing of the, the back stairs.

529
00:46:11.800 –> 00:46:12.880
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Oh.

530
00:46:13.800 –> 00:46:14.890
15MinutesOfMurder.com: At what?

531
00:46:15.050 –> 00:46:16.700
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And linked to who?

532
00:46:17.520 –> 00:46:19.350
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Unidentified.

533
00:46:20.080 –> 00:46:20.760
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

534
00:46:21.010 –> 00:46:22.060
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So…

535
00:46:22.060 –> 00:46:23.780
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Chatty, this is, this is…

536
00:46:23.780 –> 00:46:48.189
15MinutesOfMurder.com: what we’re talking about. And… but that jives with… maybe that’s the reason why there is no forced entry, because if you were Sue’s friend, and you visited the family regularly, you would probably know that they kept that back door open. So if you’re coming in to murder them, where are you coming from? You’re coming from the back door, and you may have planted

537
00:46:48.290 –> 00:46:53.189
15MinutesOfMurder.com: That thumbprint on the rail as you’re coming up and down the stairs.

538
00:46:53.780 –> 00:46:55.719
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I think I disappeared for a second.

539
00:46:55.940 –> 00:46:56.579
15MinutesOfMurder.com: You’re there now.

540
00:46:56.580 –> 00:46:57.139
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Thank you.

541
00:46:57.140 –> 00:46:57.710
15MinutesofMurder.com: Oh, okay.

542
00:46:57.710 –> 00:46:58.779
15MinutesOfMurder.com: You’re there now.

543
00:46:58.780 –> 00:46:59.309
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: We could just do.

544
00:46:59.310 –> 00:47:00.599
15MinutesOfMurder.com: You’re there now.

545
00:47:01.140 –> 00:47:06.830
15MinutesOfMurder.com: But yeah, that’s… That… that’s… The cabin.

546
00:47:07.420 –> 00:47:13.080
15MinutesofMurder.com: Yeah, so that… that takes us to… the investigation, right?

547
00:47:13.200 –> 00:47:15.229
15MinutesofMurder.com: Which had all kinds of problems.

548
00:47:15.360 –> 00:47:19.400
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Some of which we’ve already discussed.

549
00:47:19.400 –> 00:47:20.300
15MinutesofMurder.com: Yep.

550
00:47:25.610 –> 00:47:27.490
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Where we going with it, and…

551
00:47:27.700 –> 00:47:29.150
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Alright, so…

552
00:47:29.340 –> 00:47:42.980
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Let me… let me say this to y’all. So, this is the… this is the full timeline that I… I know it. So, we have Sheila going to the Seaboltz cabin at 8.30.

553
00:47:43.670 –> 00:47:45.170
15MinutesOfMurder.com: PM that night.

554
00:47:45.330 –> 00:47:52.129
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Then the Seabolts reportedly see the van outside cabin 28 at 9pm.

555
00:47:52.580 –> 00:48:00.589
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Then Tina… leaves the Seabolts to go home at approximately 9.30 PM,

556
00:48:01.830 –> 00:48:12.330
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Then John and Dana, depending on who says it, arrived home at sometime between 11 and 11.30 PM.

557
00:48:14.850 –> 00:48:17.700
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And then the murders supposedly take place.

558
00:48:19.030 –> 00:48:20.680
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Between, we don’t know?

559
00:48:21.120 –> 00:48:33.670
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Between, we don’t know. So, around 1.15 that morning, the folks in cabin 16 woke up because they heard noise.

560
00:48:36.500 –> 00:48:43.069
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Marty… and bold, Left the bar that they were hanging out.

561
00:48:43.930 –> 00:48:46.690
15MinutesofMurder.com: Who, who is Marty and Bo?

562
00:48:46.690 –> 00:48:48.210
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, Marty…

563
00:48:49.050 –> 00:48:50.849
15MinutesofMurder.com: I know who they are, but we…

564
00:48:50.850 –> 00:48:51.650
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I know.

565
00:48:51.650 –> 00:48:53.920
15MinutesofMurder.com: We should explain who… Go ahead, crime expert.

566
00:48:53.920 –> 00:48:55.370
15MinutesOfMurder.com: We’re about to, we’re about to.

567
00:48:55.370 –> 00:48:55.750
15MinutesofMurder.com: Okay.

568
00:48:55.750 –> 00:48:58.180
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So, Marty Smart.

569
00:48:58.430 –> 00:49:06.539
15MinutesOfMurder.com: is Jason, one of the little boys who are in the bedroom. That is his stepdad.

570
00:49:06.700 –> 00:49:08.370
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It’s Justin or Jason?

571
00:49:09.060 –> 00:49:11.559
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Justin, Jason, what did I say?

572
00:49:12.330 –> 00:49:13.620
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It was Justin, right?

573
00:49:14.130 –> 00:49:19.470
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Okay. Justin. So, listen, I’m a mom, I don’t even know why…

574
00:49:19.470 –> 00:49:20.190
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Whatever your name is.

575
00:49:20.190 –> 00:49:29.260
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Sometime. Yeah, whoever you are, that person. So that’s his stepdad, and Marty is married to Marilyn.

576
00:49:30.720 –> 00:49:35.410
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Bo is Marty’s homeboy.

577
00:49:35.740 –> 00:49:38.330
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So, they were at this bar.

578
00:49:38.520 –> 00:49:45.559
15MinutesOfMurder.com: acting a mess, and drinking, and fussing, and causing a commotion, and they left the bar at 1AM.

579
00:49:48.270 –> 00:49:50.769
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Two of them were actual suspects.

580
00:49:50.770 –> 00:50:01.190
15MinutesOfMurder.com: they were suspects. That’s where this is going. So, they were the suspects, they leave the bar at 1AM, and not only are they actual suspects, but

581
00:50:02.170 –> 00:50:07.419
15MinutesOfMurder.com: The legend is that Marty was having an affair with Sue.

582
00:50:10.210 –> 00:50:20.720
15MinutesOfMurder.com: and Sue… may have told Marilyn, who was Marty’s wife, That, of this affair.

583
00:50:21.530 –> 00:50:23.230
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And so…

584
00:50:23.230 –> 00:50:26.139
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Or, I heard, or read.

585
00:50:26.970 –> 00:50:27.660
15MinutesOfMurder.com: You’re good.

586
00:50:27.660 –> 00:50:31.939
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: she was trying to convince Marilyn to leave her husband.

587
00:50:31.940 –> 00:50:32.810
15MinutesOfMurder.com: to leave.

588
00:50:33.670 –> 00:50:37.410
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And… Maybe unbeknownst to her, of an affair.

589
00:50:38.410 –> 00:50:41.769
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So that she can… Have what she wants.

590
00:50:42.480 –> 00:50:43.629
15MinutesOfMurder.com: what she wants.

591
00:50:44.050 –> 00:50:57.540
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So, Marty and Bo, at the bar, hanging out, whatever, they lit. Then they come… so then we got the people in cabins number 16 here, some noise and commotion at 115.

592
00:50:58.640 –> 00:51:08.150
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Now… Marty and Bo allegedly returns back to that bar, at 1.30.

593
00:51:10.470 –> 00:51:14.779
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So what’s the timeframe between they leave the bar and come back to the bar?

594
00:51:15.160 –> 00:51:16.370
15MinutesOfMurder.com: 30 minutes.

595
00:51:16.370 –> 00:51:17.240
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: 30 minutes.

596
00:51:18.280 –> 00:51:19.400
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Exactly.

597
00:51:20.110 –> 00:51:23.300
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: That’s a whole lot of stuff.

598
00:51:23.420 –> 00:51:26.040
15MinutesOfMurder.com: To have done to a whole lot of people.

599
00:51:26.040 –> 00:51:30.649
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You’re talking about travel time, you’re talking about… and you can’t… there’s no cleanup.

600
00:51:30.990 –> 00:51:32.600
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You’re gonna have clean water.

601
00:51:32.600 –> 00:51:34.170
15MinutesofMurder.com: Clean themselves, yeah.

602
00:51:34.170 –> 00:51:36.300
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You can have blood all over you, and to murder…

603
00:51:36.640 –> 00:51:40.459
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: 3 people in 30 minutes, or less than 30 minutes, maybe 10 minutes?

604
00:51:40.790 –> 00:51:42.680
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Fingerprints?

605
00:51:43.280 –> 00:51:53.669
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And you’re gonna want… you’re gonna wanna sit down, because if you’re stabbing someone so, so hard with… with that much force, where you’re reaching their spine, you’re tired. You’re out of breath.

606
00:51:54.030 –> 00:51:57.289
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Makes me wonder, like, why they’re even suspected.

607
00:51:58.630 –> 00:52:05.429
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Like, was it solely on the supposed affair, or because they were at a bar and left the bar?

608
00:52:08.390 –> 00:52:13.760
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Like, I don’t know… I didn’t read, like, Why?

609
00:52:13.870 –> 00:52:14.720
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: they were…

610
00:52:14.720 –> 00:52:19.830
15MinutesofMurder.com: Well, one of the young boys that survived

611
00:52:20.350 –> 00:52:24.109
15MinutesofMurder.com: Out of the three, described them.

612
00:52:24.760 –> 00:52:31.190
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But he was describing… but then Justin’s just allegedly describing his dad.

613
00:52:31.780 –> 00:52:32.440
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Correct.

614
00:52:32.590 –> 00:52:33.350
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And then.

615
00:52:33.350 –> 00:52:39.070
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Or maybe, maybe they did go to the, cabin. Maybe he just went there to check on his kid.

616
00:52:40.090 –> 00:52:40.930
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I mean, that’s a.

617
00:52:40.930 –> 00:52:51.050
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, that’s… that’s a whole other set of, like, a whole other level of Twisted, though. Like, I am going to go into this… this home where my child, stepchild.

618
00:52:51.380 –> 00:52:57.890
15MinutesOfMurder.com: If you want to be specific about it. Where my child is asleep, and

619
00:52:58.010 –> 00:53:03.220
15MinutesOfMurder.com: there to have a good time with their friends, and I am going to go in this house.

620
00:53:03.680 –> 00:53:14.419
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Me and my drunk homeboy, and we are going to slaughter everyone in this house while my son is in the back room.

621
00:53:15.550 –> 00:53:17.549
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, but I mean, maybe they did…

622
00:53:17.950 –> 00:53:20.700
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Leave the bar in that 30 minutes.

623
00:53:21.100 –> 00:53:21.630
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: visit.

624
00:53:21.630 –> 00:53:22.340
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Okay.

625
00:53:22.340 –> 00:53:27.510
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But nothing had happened at that point, they just… Nothing happened. Check in, and then… You know, going…

626
00:53:27.510 –> 00:53:28.370
15MinutesofMurder.com: Back to the bar.

627
00:53:28.370 –> 00:53:29.210
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Go back to the bar.

628
00:53:29.210 –> 00:53:29.880
15MinutesofMurder.com: Yeah.

629
00:53:29.880 –> 00:53:32.050
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right. But I, I don’t…

630
00:53:32.800 –> 00:53:33.470
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You don’t think that?

631
00:53:33.470 –> 00:53:34.060
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Okay.

632
00:53:34.060 –> 00:53:35.080
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You don’t think that happens.

633
00:53:35.940 –> 00:53:37.419
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I don’t think what happened.

634
00:53:37.420 –> 00:53:41.850
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: That they just kind of popped in, checked in, and then went back to the bar.

635
00:53:45.950 –> 00:53:53.300
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Because that places them at the scene of the crime, but doesn’t mean they did it, because at the time that they arrived, maybe, you know, the murders hadn’t even happened.

636
00:53:53.300 –> 00:53:57.649
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Well, more than that, I just question the timeline.

637
00:53:58.400 –> 00:54:00.990
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So,

638
00:54:03.210 –> 00:54:12.689
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Not necessarily that they didn’t, like, really do it, because maybe they did, right? But I know for sure they didn’t do it in 30 minutes.

639
00:54:14.920 –> 00:54:17.320
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I know, I know that for sure.

640
00:54:17.620 –> 00:54:22.570
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Well, to talk about the main suspects, Smart and smart.

641
00:54:22.880 –> 00:54:26.909
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Marilyn, supposedly having an affair with Sue.

642
00:54:27.310 –> 00:54:28.339
15MinutesOfMurder.com: your needs now.

643
00:54:28.340 –> 00:54:28.690
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: He was all.

644
00:54:29.370 –> 00:54:32.350
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: an abusive man to Marilyn.

645
00:54:32.570 –> 00:54:35.320
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And… It’s…

646
00:54:36.280 –> 00:54:50.340
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: reported that Sue was trying to help Marilyn, I guess, you know. She’d been through it before with her husband, James, or her ex-husband James. So, I mean, she could have been just helping him out. I don’t know how true this affair, you know, business is.

647
00:54:50.650 –> 00:54:57.859
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But the smoking gun here is that the hammer used in the murder was owned by Marty.

648
00:54:59.120 –> 00:55:01.219
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So the hammer belonged to him.

649
00:55:02.000 –> 00:55:06.380
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And the fact that he told his therapist That he killed Sue.

650
00:55:06.890 –> 00:55:07.500
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Why…

651
00:55:07.500 –> 00:55:07.920
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Well…

652
00:55:09.530 –> 00:55:13.930
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So, so, so, so there are supposedly two hammers.

653
00:55:14.220 –> 00:55:15.040
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Hmm.

654
00:55:16.330 –> 00:55:27.930
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And the hammer that was found, weirdly found, 35 years later, I believe, is the hammer that Martin…

655
00:55:28.250 –> 00:55:41.359
15MinutesOfMurder.com: says matches the description of his hammer. I don’t… I don’t think that the hammer that was left neatly and nicely on the table in Sue’s home

656
00:55:41.620 –> 00:55:43.929
15MinutesOfMurder.com: was that knife. I mean, that happened.

657
00:55:43.930 –> 00:55:49.159
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Let’s talk about the weapons, like, where they were. The hammer was left… On a table?

658
00:55:49.290 –> 00:55:50.950
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Like, I mean, and then also…

659
00:55:50.950 –> 00:55:51.620
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yes.

660
00:55:51.620 –> 00:55:54.409
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: you leave… The murder weapons.

661
00:55:55.330 –> 00:55:55.670
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Correct!

662
00:55:55.670 –> 00:55:57.430
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: means behind murder weapons.

663
00:55:57.630 –> 00:56:16.020
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And you leave them not just scattered about, like, where… like, okay, so if I beat you with a claw hammer, that claw hammer may be left next to your body, because, woo, I’m done, I done beat you, I’m tad. But for them to leave the butcher knife and the claw hammer

664
00:56:16.280 –> 00:56:19.090
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Still bloody.

665
00:56:20.050 –> 00:56:26.519
15MinutesOfMurder.com: on a table, That’s, like, a weird level of care and concern.

666
00:56:26.520 –> 00:56:31.180
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Place, you’re placing these items down that you just used to murder someone.

667
00:56:31.420 –> 00:56:32.240
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

668
00:56:32.520 –> 00:56:34.640
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So, are you… what… what…

669
00:56:35.140 –> 00:56:51.190
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So when I try to unpack that in my investigator brain, it’s like, is that a level of, I don’t care who finds out about this? Like, is that… is that from a level of complete disregard?

670
00:56:51.510 –> 00:56:55.559
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Maybe because… Or not just, I don’t care who, it’s that…

671
00:56:55.770 –> 00:56:56.820
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: They know.

672
00:56:57.310 –> 00:57:08.210
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right, but this is… this is… this is where I was gonna go. Are you… do you… because if we’re gonna run with the theory that Martin Smart and his homeboy did this.

673
00:57:09.320 –> 00:57:32.370
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Did Martin, Smart and his homeboy leave those weapons at that table because they disregarded being caught, because they are close friends with Sheriff Doug Thomas, and if I just killed these people, I care where I leave this night. My homeboy is the sheriff, he got my back.

674
00:57:33.600 –> 00:57:39.109
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So at that point, she was still kind of the new, you know, the newbie.

675
00:57:39.360 –> 00:57:43.620
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But she’d been living there for months, so she kinda, you know.

676
00:57:43.940 –> 00:57:50.280
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: integrated into the town. Integrated, I’m sure, people, you know, Adored her kids, or…

677
00:57:50.280 –> 00:57:56.559
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Well, integrated enough to where, you know, she allegedly is sleeping with this woman’s husband.

678
00:57:56.560 –> 00:57:57.120
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

679
00:57:57.630 –> 00:58:06.519
15MinutesOfMurder.com: integrated enough to where her children were staying the night at other people’s cabins, and other people’s children were staying the night at her cabins.

680
00:58:06.520 –> 00:58:12.630
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: My thinking was, like, nobody’s gonna care, because this is the new woman in town, she’s not from here, nobody’s gonna…

681
00:58:12.850 –> 00:58:14.969
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Care what happens to this woman or her family.

682
00:58:15.600 –> 00:58:17.270
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, there are some…

683
00:58:17.270 –> 00:58:18.860
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You don’t have to cover our tracks.

684
00:58:19.250 –> 00:58:19.950
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

685
00:58:20.130 –> 00:58:27.450
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And there was one more thing that I did read, which was strange. So, I read that… Keddie.

686
00:58:27.810 –> 00:58:30.669
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: the electricity in Kennedy, in Keddie…

687
00:58:30.950 –> 00:58:38.159
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: the… the light supply, or whatever, was… the lights were controlled by Cabin 28.

688
00:58:38.270 –> 00:58:39.139
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, in order to.

689
00:58:39.140 –> 00:58:39.780
15MinutesOfMurder.com: return.

690
00:58:39.780 –> 00:58:42.410
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: off the lights in the town.

691
00:58:42.670 –> 00:58:46.279
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: you would have to turn off the lights on Cabin 28.

692
00:58:47.480 –> 00:58:51.310
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And before Sheila went over to the neighbors.

693
00:58:51.530 –> 00:58:55.870
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: She turned the light bulb out on the front of the cabin.

694
00:58:57.100 –> 00:59:02.930
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: as though, like, why would you do that? Like, what is the significance of that?

695
00:59:03.480 –> 00:59:14.230
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So that… that… I saw that too, and… and the way it was described, I couldn’t figure out if she physically, like, untwisted.

696
00:59:14.470 –> 00:59:18.979
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Now, I think it was, like, a physical untwisting, because if you would have turned the light out.

697
00:59:19.530 –> 00:59:31.649
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: If you would have manually turned the light out, then it would turn off the electricity for the town, but if you unscrew just the bulb on the porch, you would only leave the porch dark, and not the town.

698
00:59:31.650 –> 00:59:32.390
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Okay.

699
00:59:32.390 –> 00:59:34.190
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I thought that was strange.

700
00:59:34.190 –> 00:59:43.950
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So that was the one thing that was strange. The other thing for that that was strange… strange about that to me is, how would she know that?

701
00:59:44.010 –> 00:59:59.790
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And what I mean by that is that my children don’t live with me. So whenever they come to my home, they are sometimes just as confused in my house as they would be in yours, because they don’t live here, right? So, how would she have known

702
00:59:59.960 –> 01:00:07.230
15MinutesOfMurder.com: That much… and she had just been there a couple of weeks, like, did she know that… know it?

703
01:00:07.370 –> 01:00:09.020
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Oh, yeah, by the way, Sheila.

704
01:00:09.710 –> 01:00:11.740
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, so it makes me think, like.

705
01:00:11.860 –> 01:00:16.319
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It’s like, you’ll know the house, because it’ll be the only one without the porch line.

706
01:00:16.470 –> 01:00:24.719
15MinutesOfMurder.com: It’ll be the only one without the porch, without the porch light. And if… and if that was not intentional and just a coincidence, like.

707
01:00:24.720 –> 01:00:26.990
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: That’s horrible luck.

708
01:00:27.000 –> 01:00:29.540
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Well, also… Boom.

709
01:00:29.760 –> 01:00:32.929
15MinutesOfMurder.com: How often during the night would

710
01:00:33.210 –> 01:00:39.370
15MinutesOfMurder.com: would Sheila see Sue doing that? Would Sheila… would Sue.

711
01:00:39.370 –> 01:00:41.849
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, yeah, was it something that she would regularly do to sing?

712
01:00:41.850 –> 01:00:47.019
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right, like, because otherwise, how would Sheila have known? Because that’s, like, a quirky thing to know.

713
01:00:47.230 –> 01:00:47.860
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

714
01:00:48.410 –> 01:00:53.880
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It’s like if you’re overthinking it, that theory, and I’ll, you know…

715
01:00:54.930 –> 01:01:03.790
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: you know, there’s no shame. I mean, I did go down a rabbit hole, as we talked on the live, I like my rabbit holes.

716
01:01:03.790 –> 01:01:04.660
15MinutesOfMurder.com: investigators do.

717
01:01:04.660 –> 01:01:12.499
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, and I went down a rabbit hole on a site called Ketty28, and when I say the theories…

718
01:01:12.630 –> 01:01:15.680
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: from this site, Are really, like.

719
01:01:16.330 –> 01:01:18.630
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, if you’re doing your own research.

720
01:01:18.840 –> 01:01:37.799
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: visit there on this case if you want to go a little further and deeper, but I try to stay away from it because I don’t want to make any accusations more than there already have been, like Sheila and this light bulb situation, but that is definitely a strange thing.

721
01:01:39.040 –> 01:01:44.240
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: to think about happening on the night of murders. I mean, I don’t know if she did that every night.

722
01:01:44.670 –> 01:01:45.730
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: We don’t know.

723
01:01:46.020 –> 01:01:47.989
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It could just be coincidence.

724
01:01:48.400 –> 01:01:50.510
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But it… definitely strange.

725
01:01:50.990 –> 01:02:00.429
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Can we double back to this hammer? Because this hammer low-key almost took me out. Like, this hammer almost took me down a whole rabbit hole.

726
01:02:01.680 –> 01:02:03.339
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And I’mma tell you why.

727
01:02:06.260 –> 01:02:09.289
15MinutesOfMurder.com: We find the hammer.

728
01:02:09.590 –> 01:02:12.190
15MinutesOfMurder.com: 35 years later.

729
01:02:12.880 –> 01:02:21.410
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And that hammer is still significant enough for us to report. So what I mean by that is, if something happens.

730
01:02:21.540 –> 01:02:30.050
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right now, in 2025. And then we find… The tool that was used.

731
01:02:30.550 –> 01:02:35.150
15MinutesOfMurder.com: 35 years later. Do I immediately be like, oh, snap!

732
01:02:35.350 –> 01:02:39.199
15MinutesOfMurder.com: This is the tool that we were looking for at 35, you know what I’m saying?

733
01:02:39.200 –> 01:02:40.980
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You’re talking, you’re thinking planted.

734
01:02:41.850 –> 01:02:52.379
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I’m thinking… not only am I thinking planted, I am thinking planted because the person who allegedly found this… girl, let me tell you about this story if you don’t know this part.

735
01:02:52.550 –> 01:02:53.000
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Hell yeah.

736
01:02:53.000 –> 01:02:58.570
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So this man was with a woman, and they were attending a wedding.

737
01:02:59.630 –> 01:03:05.240
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And the woman Claims to have lost her ring.

738
01:03:06.410 –> 01:03:10.270
15MinutesOfMurder.com: The man went and got a metal detector.

739
01:03:12.770 –> 01:03:31.010
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yep, that face. He went and got this metal detector, and he’s out looking for this metal… this… this ring with this metal detector, and what was… what is now, at the time they’re searching, a dried-up pond.

740
01:03:33.700 –> 01:03:36.569
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And it is in this dried-up pond.

741
01:03:36.710 –> 01:03:48.160
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Where this man is with a metal detector, looking for a ring that belonged to a woman who attended a wedding, and then we find

742
01:03:49.970 –> 01:03:51.060
15MinutesOfMurder.com: The hammer.

743
01:03:51.060 –> 01:03:55.470
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I guess, in your boat on a dried-up pond when you lost your ring?

744
01:03:56.540 –> 01:04:00.279
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Well, maybe the pond was not empty at the time.

745
01:04:00.280 –> 01:04:04.260
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Maybe it was a reservoir, and it just happened to drain.

746
01:04:04.260 –> 01:04:07.479
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Maybe, I… I don’t know.

747
01:04:07.670 –> 01:04:07.990
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: That’s true.

748
01:04:07.990 –> 01:04:10.750
15MinutesOfMurder.com: But… Ain’t that strange?

749
01:04:10.750 –> 01:04:20.320
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And so, what this guy finds, instead of the ring, he finds the hammer and then goes and reports it as though the first murder in the town is in the back of his head.

750
01:04:20.600 –> 01:04:24.860
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And he’s like, let me go report this hammer, because this has to be the murder weapon.

751
01:04:24.860 –> 01:04:26.950
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And it’s 35 years later.

752
01:04:26.950 –> 01:04:30.090
15MinutesofMurder.com: Yeah, because if I found a hammer laying somewhere, I wouldn’t.

753
01:04:30.090 –> 01:04:31.580
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I wouldn’t make anything.

754
01:04:31.580 –> 01:04:34.199
15MinutesOfMurder.com: You wouldn’t think anything of it.

755
01:04:34.680 –> 01:04:38.370
15MinutesofMurder.com: I would just probably sew it to the side and keep doing what I’m doing.

756
01:04:38.370 –> 01:04:40.469
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, I probably wouldn’t even touch it. I just keep on.

757
01:04:40.470 –> 01:04:43.420
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I wouldn’t even have thought about it.

758
01:04:43.420 –> 01:04:44.920
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, oh, a hammer.

759
01:04:45.230 –> 01:04:46.580
15MinutesOfMurder.com: A hammer.

760
01:04:47.930 –> 01:04:51.049
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And so… That’s the second hammer.

761
01:04:52.260 –> 01:05:05.669
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yes. Yes. And that is the hammer that allegedly matches the description of the hammer that came up missing from Martin Shorts. I mean, Martin Smart Tie.

762
01:05:05.670 –> 01:05:07.449
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I know, I want to say Martin Short all the time.

763
01:05:07.450 –> 01:05:10.819
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Me too. We’re, we’re 80s babies.

764
01:05:10.820 –> 01:05:13.919
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: No, can you tell? So…

765
01:05:14.320 –> 01:05:18.520
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: At that point, when that… when he found the hammer, then Marty was already dead.

766
01:05:20.730 –> 01:05:26.310
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I guess so, because he found a hammer in 2016. So was Marty, was Marty dead?

767
01:05:27.090 –> 01:05:33.330
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, because they had him in… I mean, they questioned them, but he… but now, it’s like, he’s dead.

768
01:05:33.440 –> 01:05:41.399
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So there’s nothing that can be done finding this evidence to try and close it out, so the man who picked up the hammer didn’t do it.

769
01:05:41.400 –> 01:05:43.729
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Well, well, I think, of course, the.

770
01:05:43.730 –> 01:05:45.150
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I’m going just crazy.

771
01:05:45.150 –> 01:05:55.229
15MinutesOfMurder.com: was not going to close this out, because it was reported to the, detective from the Sacramento

772
01:05:55.600 –> 01:05:57.710
15MinutesOfMurder.com: the Department of Justice.

773
01:05:58.130 –> 01:06:02.879
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Because that’s who they called in to work this case.

774
01:06:03.310 –> 01:06:14.410
15MinutesOfMurder.com: to take it out of the jurisdiction or whatever for the Plumas County Sheriff. But those Department of Justice people were not homicide detectives.

775
01:06:14.560 –> 01:06:18.770
15MinutesOfMurder.com: They were organized crime agents.

776
01:06:19.310 –> 01:06:29.329
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So… Not to say that they don’t know how to conduct a homicide investigation, but that’s… that…

777
01:06:30.090 –> 01:06:30.690
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

778
01:06:31.160 –> 01:06:35.889
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, to recap… About botched evidence, now that we’re talking about a.

779
01:06:36.320 –> 01:06:38.399
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: 35 years later, in a dry pond.

780
01:06:38.400 –> 01:06:43.060
15MinutesOfMurder.com: In a dry pot. So there was contaminated crime scene evidence,

781
01:06:43.060 –> 01:06:45.169
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: There was no neighborhood sweep done.

782
01:06:45.560 –> 01:06:49.610
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: There was no forensic preservation whatsoever.

783
01:06:49.730 –> 01:06:56.309
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: There was… interviews were delayed, and in delaying interviews, you give people enough time to get their story straight.

784
01:06:56.820 –> 01:06:58.789
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And tips were ignored.

785
01:06:59.260 –> 01:07:10.860
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So people giving tips of saying, hey, I saw a green van the night of the murders. Hey, I saw a strange man. These things were ignored, or weren’t followed up on.

786
01:07:10.990 –> 01:07:17.930
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And I don’t know whether that’s from a small town, and not having the experience.

787
01:07:18.110 –> 01:07:34.289
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But I mean, you have the common sense. I mean, there’s common sense. We all… I mean, literally, our country is steeped in crime. I mean, you watching old episodes of FBI and all this, and you’re the police chief of a small town. I mean, I’m pretty sure you know what to do first.

788
01:07:34.740 –> 01:07:39.350
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I mean, everybody pretty much knows what to do in the first 48 hours and the first 24 hours.

789
01:07:40.680 –> 01:07:42.170
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Question everyone.

790
01:07:42.190 –> 01:07:43.100
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I was about to say you just talked.

791
01:07:43.100 –> 01:07:44.080
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Everywhere.

792
01:07:44.880 –> 01:07:46.939
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: comb the neighborhood.

793
01:07:49.310 –> 01:07:56.159
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And as far as, like, stepping in and contaminating crime scenes, I get that, like, you don’t know what the hell to do.

794
01:07:56.300 –> 01:07:58.570
15MinutesOfMurder.com: When you walk into something like that.

795
01:07:59.920 –> 01:08:15.730
15MinutesOfMurder.com: But I think… I think even back then, what you’re saying is contaminating a crime scene. It may not have had the same importance that it may have today. And the reason why I say that is because

796
01:08:16.319 –> 01:08:20.239
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Contaminating a crime scene in 1981 means what?

797
01:08:20.510 –> 01:08:22.179
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Because half, half the…

798
01:08:22.180 –> 01:08:26.389
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: door with your hand and turning the door, it means stopping and walking all over.

799
01:08:26.390 –> 01:08:32.859
15MinutesOfMurder.com: because… Half of the technology and science that would have been used

800
01:08:33.109 –> 01:08:36.930
15MinutesOfMurder.com: To… to comb through that didn’t even exist in.

801
01:08:36.939 –> 01:08:37.319
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yay.

802
01:08:37.319 –> 01:08:37.829
15MinutesOfMurder.com: one.

803
01:08:38.149 –> 01:08:38.629
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: True.

804
01:08:38.630 –> 01:08:39.490
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I would, but it…

805
01:08:39.490 –> 01:08:51.360
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Again, you don’t want to walk into a crime scene stepping on blood spatter, or touching anything… touch nothing. Even I know, grab a pen and pick up the…

806
01:08:51.529 –> 01:08:57.719
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Pick up a gun with a pen, like, don’t touch anything. And I can’t imagine what they did walking in there.

807
01:08:58.240 –> 01:09:00.120
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Collecting evidence, and…

808
01:09:00.120 –> 01:09:14.769
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Not just them walking in there, but the Seabolts, whomever from the Seabolt cabin had to go in and get the kids out. Even if they took the kids through the back, that is still a crime scene.

809
01:09:15.109 –> 01:09:16.029
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

810
01:09:16.909 –> 01:09:17.689
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

811
01:09:17.989 –> 01:09:19.909
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And then at that point, what is…

812
01:09:20.329 –> 01:09:23.679
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I mean, I get it, you removed the kids from the crime scene.

813
01:09:26.130 –> 01:09:33.459
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But at what point were the kids taken? I mean, my god, I just… my brain, like, just can’t…

814
01:09:34.050 –> 01:09:35.490
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Understand, like.

815
01:09:37.350 –> 01:09:40.010
15MinutesofMurder.com: Did anybody question the kids?

816
01:09:41.149 –> 01:09:42.189
15MinutesOfMurder.com: So they did.

817
01:09:42.189 –> 01:09:42.959
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: thin.

818
01:09:43.439 –> 01:09:44.859
15MinutesOfMurder.com: He was so… And, in, and…

819
01:09:44.999 –> 01:09:51.459
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, they, they talk to the kids, and Justin is the one who…

820
01:09:51.689 –> 01:10:05.939
15MinutesOfMurder.com: gave them the varying descriptions. So, at one time, they interviewed the kids, and Justin said he saw this. And then another time they interviewed the kids, Justin gave a different account of what he saw.

821
01:10:06.119 –> 01:10:20.789
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And that… that’s the part where I say they needed to call in that forensic psychologist, because at that point, we need someone who is specifically trained

822
01:10:20.919 –> 01:10:29.949
15MinutesOfMurder.com: To withdraw that kind of memory and recollection out of someone through their trauma, through their sleep.

823
01:10:30.799 –> 01:10:48.629
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Taking into account that they are 10 years old, or 12 years old, or however old he would have been. To just have a regular homicide detective to interview those kids, they got what they got because of that.

824
01:10:49.220 –> 01:10:50.900
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But, also.

825
01:10:51.020 –> 01:10:58.959
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Like, when… when he’s saying, if… if a kid… if they’re claiming the kid slept through the night and saw nothing.

826
01:10:59.760 –> 01:11:03.040
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: How do you have Justin, who is telling you what he saw?

827
01:11:03.650 –> 01:11:05.620
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And if he saw something.

828
01:11:05.620 –> 01:11:14.789
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Did he see men hanging out there before he went into the room and nothing and everything was fine? And they knew these people who were in there, and that’s what he saw?

829
01:11:15.130 –> 01:11:15.730
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Or how…

830
01:11:15.730 –> 01:11:24.040
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: the murders happening and ran back to the room. Like, the questioning of the children

831
01:11:24.670 –> 01:11:26.629
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: The ball was dropped there.

832
01:11:26.630 –> 01:11:29.430
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Or how about, did you see your daddy?

833
01:11:29.660 –> 01:11:30.180
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

834
01:11:30.900 –> 01:11:36.280
15MinutesofMurder.com: I mean, I don’t… I mean, we don’t know what’s in those case files of what…

835
01:11:37.120 –> 01:11:38.820
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: was said, or one question…

836
01:11:38.820 –> 01:11:40.669
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Questions were asked to them.

837
01:11:40.950 –> 01:11:56.080
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, did you see your daddy doing this? And is that also why Justin gave varying descriptions? Because did he see his daddy? And, oh, snap, I did see my daddy, so let me hurry up and change.

838
01:11:56.080 –> 01:11:58.539
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Oh, wait, I don’t remember what I saw.

839
01:11:58.540 –> 01:11:58.860
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

840
01:11:58.860 –> 01:12:00.049
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I don’t remember.

841
01:12:02.570 –> 01:12:03.430
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

842
01:12:03.430 –> 01:12:07.549
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Well, that would make sense if he did see them before, just…

843
01:12:07.870 –> 01:12:25.849
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: hanging out, but then they have the alibi of being at the bar. But then, is everyone at the bar telling the truth? I mean, we don’t have, you know, surveillance cameras to prove when they walked in the bar, when they walked out of the bar. They might have never even been at the bar. They could have been at the house the whole time. But then I feel like Sheila would have…

844
01:12:26.780 –> 01:12:30.769
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Reported that, you know, Marty and his friend.

845
01:12:31.470 –> 01:12:33.879
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And the truth of the matter is…

846
01:12:34.270 –> 01:12:43.410
15MinutesOfMurder.com: who… even if all of these things were reported, so if the CBOTS would have said, hey,

847
01:12:44.060 –> 01:13:00.040
15MinutesOfMurder.com: we saw John Smith in that green van, or if someone would have been able to identify this strange person in his glasses, or if someone was able to provide the name of this person who just so happened to find his hammer 35 years later.

848
01:13:00.090 –> 01:13:07.519
15MinutesOfMurder.com: If someone would have provided all of that information, if the… if the county sheriff

849
01:13:08.490 –> 01:13:15.769
15MinutesOfMurder.com: is crooked and steeped in the middle of these people, what he gonna do? He gonna give a full investigation?

850
01:13:15.770 –> 01:13:18.869
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: That’s true, but then also to go back to, like.

851
01:13:19.070 –> 01:13:24.510
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: were they at the bar, or weren’t they at the bar, talking about who Bo was, Marty’s friend.

852
01:13:25.550 –> 01:13:27.590
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: He was an ex-mob enforcer.

853
01:13:28.390 –> 01:13:28.800
15MinutesOfMurder.com: All right.

854
01:13:28.800 –> 01:13:30.520
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Martin’s basement.

855
01:13:31.370 –> 01:13:37.070
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: criminal record, and he had ties to the FBI. So if they wanted to cover up anything.

856
01:13:37.430 –> 01:13:39.410
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: No problem, they were at the bar.

857
01:13:40.140 –> 01:13:50.459
15MinutesOfMurder.com: No problem. We’re at the bar. Better yet, no problem, we just gonna go ahead and sit these knives on the table, because we ain’t worried about that. We ain’t worried about nobody fearing that.

858
01:13:50.460 –> 01:13:54.949
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: No problem, we’ll leave you something to investigate. That’ll lead to nowhere.

859
01:13:56.960 –> 01:14:05.740
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, I mean, that’s crazy, and like, you know, what exactly is an ex-mob enforcer? Like, You’re…

860
01:14:06.240 –> 01:14:09.030
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You get out, and they ain’t not pulling you back in?

861
01:14:09.210 –> 01:14:12.020
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And they’re not pulling back in? Well, we know just from that…

862
01:14:12.020 –> 01:14:12.689
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Are you able to…

863
01:14:12.690 –> 01:14:17.690
15MinutesOfMurder.com: games, just for neighborhood games. They say, we can’t let you go!

864
01:14:17.690 –> 01:14:19.379
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Where you think you going?

865
01:14:20.540 –> 01:14:24.120
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: an ex-mob enforcer, like, I don’t think that is…

866
01:14:24.120 –> 01:14:35.000
15MinutesOfMurder.com: From Chicago. So somebody from Chic… somebody from Chicago finna move to Caddy, California, and live in a cabin. No, live in someone’s basement in the cabin.

867
01:14:35.370 –> 01:14:37.480
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And you from Chi-Town?

868
01:14:37.930 –> 01:14:38.500
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

869
01:14:40.900 –> 01:14:41.280
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: That’s not…

870
01:14:41.280 –> 01:14:43.900
15MinutesofMurder.com: – .

871
01:14:44.280 –> 01:14:46.060
15MinutesOfMurder.com: What you about to say, Cora?

872
01:14:46.060 –> 01:14:50.209
15MinutesofMurder.com: I’m just… I’m thinking of other… I’m thinking forward a little bit now.

873
01:14:50.770 –> 01:14:56.450
15MinutesofMurder.com: Because I’m starting now to think about… 3 different things. Okay.

874
01:14:56.820 –> 01:15:04.180
15MinutesofMurder.com: the letter that Marty wrote to his wife, Where he, essentially…

875
01:15:04.180 –> 01:15:04.830
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: to…

876
01:15:05.240 –> 01:15:15.000
15MinutesofMurder.com: Admitted that he did it. The phone call that came in about Tina and her… Skull.

877
01:15:15.720 –> 01:15:21.550
15MinutesofMurder.com: I feel like it came from a payphone or something. And then I’m also now going back to…

878
01:15:22.140 –> 01:15:26.019
15MinutesofMurder.com: Dez’s theory of this family who wanted…

879
01:15:26.480 –> 01:15:31.500
15MinutesofMurder.com: the… the grandkid that Sheila had, like… What happened to them?

880
01:15:32.430 –> 01:15:35.100
15MinutesofMurder.com: And all of… in all of this.

881
01:15:36.380 –> 01:15:37.560
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Do y’all know that…

882
01:15:37.680 –> 01:15:44.209
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Do y’all know that that call to report Tina came in almost 3 years to the day?

883
01:15:45.350 –> 01:15:46.430
15MinutesOfMurder.com: that the…

884
01:15:46.430 –> 01:15:49.229
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Do you know whose cell phone call came in from, or it was anonymous?

885
01:15:49.550 –> 01:15:51.509
15MinutesOfMurder.com: It was allegedly anonymous.

886
01:15:52.280 –> 01:16:00.419
15MinutesofMurder.com: Because I feel like this is… that’s a whole nother element to this, is where did… where did Tina… Tina go? Where’s she been for 3 years?

887
01:16:00.560 –> 01:16:04.789
15MinutesofMurder.com: The skull was found 100 miles away from Keddie somewhere.

888
01:16:04.970 –> 01:16:05.770
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

889
01:16:05.770 –> 01:16:09.560
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Pina was how old when the murders happened?

890
01:16:10.950 –> 01:16:12.560
15MinutesOfMurder.com: routine? Well…

891
01:16:13.630 –> 01:16:17.939
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And so… and so, at the time they found her skull, she would have been hell?

892
01:16:19.480 –> 01:16:20.230
15MinutesOfMurder.com: 15.

893
01:16:20.640 –> 01:16:22.039
15MinutesOfMurder.com: 1 on 15.

894
01:16:22.160 –> 01:16:24.940
15MinutesofMurder.com: But she could have been dead the whole time, you know?

895
01:16:26.190 –> 01:16:27.490
15MinutesofMurder.com: She could have been dead for 3 years.

896
01:16:27.490 –> 01:16:30.980
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, Craig, you’re thinking, like, I see.

897
01:16:30.980 –> 01:16:33.110
15MinutesOfMurder.com: your wheels turning, Tanisha.

898
01:16:33.770 –> 01:16:42.600
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, you’re thinking that the… people… Possibly who… No, that… that’s not…

899
01:16:43.520 –> 01:16:44.359
15MinutesOfMurder.com: What were you about to say?

900
01:16:44.360 –> 01:16:46.980
15MinutesofMurder.com: I’m not thinking anything, really, I’m just…

901
01:16:47.180 –> 01:16:50.570
15MinutesofMurder.com: Making sure we don’t leave her out of the story, because.

902
01:16:50.570 –> 01:16:51.250
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know?

903
01:16:51.390 –> 01:16:52.439
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Oh, no, well…

904
01:16:52.440 –> 01:16:52.960
15MinutesofMurder.com: Yeah.

905
01:16:52.960 –> 01:16:59.989
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, no, we were just going down that rabbit hole of that whole, who was involved and how criminal it was.

906
01:17:00.930 –> 01:17:04.859
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Because, like, I… like, the sheriff, like, talking about the sheriff and being…

907
01:17:05.580 –> 01:17:11.970
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: you know, tied to not only Martin, but Bo as well. He was close friends to Marty.

908
01:17:12.100 –> 01:17:14.770
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, again, he was at the bar.

909
01:17:15.330 –> 01:17:22.340
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: you know, He, like, had conflicts of interest with everybody involved.

910
01:17:22.760 –> 01:17:25.830
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right. In Cabin 28, he knew the layout.

911
01:17:25.830 –> 01:17:29.429
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And like you said, if you lived in Cabin 16, you know the layout of Cabin 28.

912
01:17:30.430 –> 01:17:34.329
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And whoever it was knew that they can walk into Cabin 28.

913
01:17:34.330 –> 01:17:34.930
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

914
01:17:34.930 –> 01:17:40.569
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: They weren’t gonna have any kind of locked door problem, or have to break into a window.

915
01:17:41.330 –> 01:17:44.389
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, there’s, like, just corruption all over.

916
01:17:44.880 –> 01:17:45.730
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

917
01:17:46.250 –> 01:17:53.479
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I like, I like Craig’s thinking of not allowing Tina to get lost.

918
01:17:53.720 –> 01:17:57.050
15MinutesOfMurder.com: in the fray of all of this.

919
01:17:57.920 –> 01:18:01.729
15MinutesOfMurder.com: back to that word of motive, I think Tina…

920
01:18:02.470 –> 01:18:17.759
15MinutesOfMurder.com: could be herself a motive for some of this, just from the fact that Tina, there were reports that she was molested in the town, and no one followed up on that.

921
01:18:18.360 –> 01:18:30.360
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And… Just… there’s just a history of suing her kids, just being…

922
01:18:30.730 –> 01:18:34.969
15MinutesOfMurder.com: screwed over during the time that they were in Caddy.

923
01:18:35.330 –> 01:18:40.179
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So then you’re talking about Sue, who has a… Teen daughter who’s pregnant.

924
01:18:40.510 –> 01:18:43.179
15MinutesOfMurder.com: My young daughter who’s molested.

925
01:18:43.390 –> 01:18:46.690
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: A young son who’s hanging out with the wrong crowd.

926
01:18:48.390 –> 01:19:00.430
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And it could’ve… I mean, the angles could be anywhere. And when I think about it, it’s just like, you always say, what’s the one… what’s the one odd piece in everything? Like, what’s the odd…

927
01:19:00.940 –> 01:19:06.279
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: what’s the odd placement in these murders? And it’s that a young child was taken.

928
01:19:06.550 –> 01:19:09.820
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So then you start going into, you know, your… your…

929
01:19:11.350 –> 01:19:14.320
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Human trafficking of children, like, was she taken.

930
01:19:14.320 –> 01:19:14.960
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

931
01:19:15.400 –> 01:19:18.909
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, like, did what… Did the person…

932
01:19:18.910 –> 01:19:22.609
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You spared the boys, but you didn’t spare the child, the little baby girl.

933
01:19:23.140 –> 01:19:27.890
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, so, so is it, is it,

934
01:19:28.480 –> 01:19:45.969
15MinutesOfMurder.com: whomever harmed, sexually assaulted Tina, was their fixation on Tina continued to the point of, let me get Tina, and to get Tina, I am willing to murder everyone around her to get to her, and she’s coming with me.

935
01:19:46.210 –> 01:20:04.519
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Is it that? Is it, again, what Craig said with the meats? You… you took my baby from me, I’m finna kill you and your whole family except for your baby. And your baby is coming with me. So, Tina can’t be lost in this.

936
01:20:04.730 –> 01:20:06.789
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: No, and I mean, it’s just…

937
01:20:07.430 –> 01:20:14.679
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It’s so hard to even think, like, They suffered a horrible death.

938
01:20:14.900 –> 01:20:15.420
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: The mom…

939
01:20:15.900 –> 01:20:16.660
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Dana.

940
01:20:17.240 –> 01:20:22.020
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, John, they suffered a horrible death, but we don’t know what Tina suffered.

941
01:20:22.590 –> 01:20:23.380
15MinutesOfMurder.com: No.

942
01:20:23.380 –> 01:20:30.669
15MinutesofMurder.com: Was she kept alive for those 3 years, or was she killed the next day, too?

943
01:20:31.240 –> 01:20:32.420
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I don’t know.

944
01:20:32.930 –> 01:20:37.400
15MinutesofMurder.com: Yeah. I don’t know, and I think that’s all part of the terror.

945
01:20:37.910 –> 01:20:39.000
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

946
01:20:39.260 –> 01:20:42.590
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And I mean, you know, and then we talk about the survivors.

947
01:20:42.970 –> 01:20:45.490
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, you have Sheila, the oldest.

948
01:20:45.960 –> 01:20:46.390
15MinutesOfMurder.com: She’s got…

949
01:20:46.390 –> 01:20:52.110
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: gotta be… you know… She’s gotta be…

950
01:20:52.110 –> 01:20:53.120
15MinutesofMurder.com: our age.

951
01:20:53.600 –> 01:21:00.900
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, yeah, she’s our age, and… just… How do you… reconcile life.

952
01:21:02.440 –> 01:21:10.360
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: After seeing something like that, Knowing your baby sister, you sent your baby sister home, and she was… Murdered.

953
01:21:11.410 –> 01:21:13.659
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Left and dumped like she was nothing.

954
01:21:14.680 –> 01:21:26.130
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And the truth of that is, whether you did that intentionally, or just out of a mistake, that guilt will be the same.

955
01:21:26.130 –> 01:21:31.400
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, yeah, just the what-if. I mean, I can’t imagine the what-ifs.

956
01:21:31.400 –> 01:21:31.930
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Nope.

957
01:21:32.190 –> 01:21:37.810
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And even the young boys who were in the other room, and though they were just young, you still have to…

958
01:21:38.310 –> 01:21:46.429
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You have to… I mean, there… at 12 and, you know, even 7, I’m… I look back at things and go, what if I would have done this?

959
01:21:46.640 –> 01:21:47.160
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: What if.

960
01:21:47.160 –> 01:21:48.060
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

961
01:21:48.060 –> 01:21:53.550
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Let alone, you know, my big brother, my mom, you know.

962
01:21:53.940 –> 01:21:55.530
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Done the way they were done.

963
01:21:55.690 –> 01:22:08.250
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And it’s just so sad to me that, you know, people are quick to, oh, I found this hammer, oh, we found the skull of Tina, but yet there’s still no further push in investigation.

964
01:22:08.390 –> 01:22:15.739
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And Sheila, to this day, is still trying to investigate and have, you know, answers for her family.

965
01:22:16.960 –> 01:22:18.700
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And get nothing.

966
01:22:18.890 –> 01:22:21.649
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You get two random tips!

967
01:22:22.090 –> 01:22:23.910
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: From… left field.

968
01:22:24.370 –> 01:22:26.850
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But you… you have no investigation.

969
01:22:27.450 –> 01:22:30.159
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Into those things, and lead to just dead ends.

970
01:22:30.830 –> 01:22:31.490
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

971
01:22:32.380 –> 01:22:37.919
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, and Sheila, Sheila did do an interview, I think, with People in, what, 2016?

972
01:22:38.800 –> 01:22:54.949
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: talking about her experiences. You can also find a lot of videos on YouTube of… with her and her brother, revisiting Keddie, actually, and it’s very hard to watch, them revisiting and recalling memories

973
01:22:55.150 –> 01:22:56.929
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: From that time.

974
01:22:57.250 –> 01:23:03.880
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And, it’s just, I really hope that she can… Find the answers.

975
01:23:04.040 –> 01:23:06.229
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: to what happened to her family. She deserves it.

976
01:23:06.990 –> 01:23:13.080
15MinutesOfMurder.com: She absolutely deserves that. And I think… We all do.

977
01:23:13.440 –> 01:23:14.650
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Hmm, yeah.

978
01:23:14.650 –> 01:23:22.010
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Just because… because I think that the Keddie murders are so gripping.

979
01:23:22.060 –> 01:23:27.540
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Because we all feel that human dynamic of this.

980
01:23:27.590 –> 01:23:40.309
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And granted that for a lot of people who are listening to us, a lot of people who have researched this case on their own, this… these are people who, like.

981
01:23:40.350 –> 01:23:54.669
15MinutesOfMurder.com: They may not have even been alive yet when these murders had taken place, but it’s something about this case that just pulls at all of your human being fibers.

982
01:23:55.190 –> 01:24:00.139
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, and I think, too, for me, the draw was that this was…

983
01:24:00.320 –> 01:24:04.609
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: This was our time, you know? These are the kids, this is when we grew up.

984
01:24:04.840 –> 01:24:05.380
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right!

985
01:24:05.380 –> 01:24:06.180
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And…

986
01:24:06.330 –> 01:24:20.950
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: you know, in the 80s, things were like that. It was, you know, you were free to ride your bikes until the streetlight came on, then get home, you know, you were over your friend’s house for dinner, your friends were over your house for dinner, and it was that…

987
01:24:21.120 –> 01:24:22.959
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It was… it was a little bit…

988
01:24:23.120 –> 01:24:29.759
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: of a… more of a carefree, you didn’t really worry too much about your neighbors, you didn’t keep your doors unlocked in some places.

989
01:24:29.760 –> 01:24:30.460
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

990
01:24:30.770 –> 01:24:37.419
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And to just think, like, you put yourself in that, like, you know, I think of the friends that I grew up with, and I’m like.

991
01:24:38.080 –> 01:24:40.309
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I just can’t even imagine.

992
01:24:40.850 –> 01:25:00.039
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right, and that’s what makes me offer so much grace and consideration to Sue, because that was all of us, whether our parents were somewhere, you know, CEOs of General Motors, or, I don’t know, cashiers at White Castle.

993
01:25:00.100 –> 01:25:19.100
15MinutesOfMurder.com: our story was the same as children, that we were out and about, not just so much left alone, as we were just out and about. Like, you watch… I don’t know, you watch IT, right? You watch DARE, you watch any of these times, right?

994
01:25:19.100 –> 01:25:19.890
15MinutesofMurder.com: Thanks.

995
01:25:20.200 –> 01:25:23.970
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, any, any Spike Lee movie, where, where he, you know.

996
01:25:23.970 –> 01:25:24.780
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: 80s.

997
01:25:25.000 –> 01:25:32.869
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, that’s… that is what that element was when it comes to children. So that’s, again, I don’t want to, you know.

998
01:25:33.310 –> 01:25:43.769
15MinutesOfMurder.com: The dog slew out about that, because that, of this whole case, that right there is the one thing that was closest to the normal.

999
01:25:44.370 –> 01:25:44.860
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

1000
01:25:44.860 –> 01:25:46.540
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Than anything else.

1001
01:25:46.810 –> 01:25:51.509
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And also, you know, you and saying that you don’t wanna, you know, you don’t wanna dog Sue out for…

1002
01:25:51.720 –> 01:25:56.799
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: the way she raised her kids, and I mean, I give her credit for breaking away from an abusive man.

1003
01:25:56.800 –> 01:25:57.430
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I want to get better.

1004
01:25:57.430 –> 01:26:07.040
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: for her children, whether she let them run about or not. And kids are gonna… I mean, you could try and raise your kids as great as you want, but there’s all kinds of influences out there.

1005
01:26:07.040 –> 01:26:07.360
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

1006
01:26:07.360 –> 01:26:24.700
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Just like you don’t, you know, want a dog out to, I don’t want to, you know, put this, like, Sheila did it, you know, she’s the only one who survived, and the boys were too young. Like, this is just, you know, your brain tries to think of anything to grab onto to…

1007
01:26:24.730 –> 01:26:28.370
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Explain away what happened to these people.

1008
01:26:28.620 –> 01:26:37.609
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Because guess what else Sheila has to deal with? You know, it’s not just the guilt of, dang, did I send my sister over there?

1009
01:26:37.700 –> 01:26:51.500
15MinutesOfMurder.com: inadvertently to be killed. Or, dang, I don’t know who killed my family. She also has the burden of being the sole survivor, and everybody’s like, you did it.

1010
01:26:52.030 –> 01:26:56.619
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And not only that, she also has to live with the fear of…

1011
01:26:56.620 –> 01:26:56.960
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

1012
01:26:56.960 –> 01:26:57.630
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: being.

1013
01:26:57.860 –> 01:27:00.609
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: No one’s caught. Someone’s still out there.

1014
01:27:00.980 –> 01:27:05.379
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: What did they want? Did they want my mom? Was it me? Was it…

1015
01:27:05.380 –> 01:27:05.950
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

1016
01:27:05.950 –> 01:27:10.940
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Who was it? Like, you still live with that fear and that, like, you know…

1017
01:27:11.380 –> 01:27:15.220
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: That just… you cannot trust anyone.

1018
01:27:15.830 –> 01:27:16.600
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: In your life.

1019
01:27:16.600 –> 01:27:21.889
15MinutesofMurder.com: But… It’s… it’s also… Her two younger brothers.

1020
01:27:23.000 –> 01:27:32.770
15MinutesofMurder.com: they were ones that I could never find any information on during this whole research process. But they’re still alive, and they’re still out there.

1021
01:27:32.770 –> 01:27:33.380
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

1022
01:27:33.580 –> 01:27:35.490
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But I mean, you know, at…

1023
01:27:36.310 –> 01:27:39.490
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: At that point, I’m like, you know, they have to be protected.

1024
01:27:40.710 –> 01:27:42.660
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, what…

1025
01:27:43.360 –> 01:27:53.319
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: The psychological trauma that they’ve probably grown up with, grown… had to deal with, and whether they got, you know, professional help or not.

1026
01:27:53.890 –> 01:27:57.840
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And too, like, Were they just left on their own to figure out how.

1027
01:27:58.270 –> 01:28:10.510
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: life with a tragedy like that? Did they grow up with anger? Did they grow up with hatred? Did, you know, did they grow up to be kind young men? Did they grow up to be family men? I mean, I don’t.

1028
01:28:11.540 –> 01:28:12.450
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

1029
01:28:12.700 –> 01:28:13.140
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Oh, no.

1030
01:28:14.390 –> 01:28:19.010
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, I, I, no matter who actually committed.

1031
01:28:19.420 –> 01:28:22.690
15MinutesOfMurder.com: These atrocities to this family, right?

1032
01:28:23.190 –> 01:28:26.410
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I blame law enforcement.

1033
01:28:27.610 –> 01:28:35.219
15MinutesOfMurder.com: that’s… that is where I… I hang my hat, for the blame of this, not for…

1034
01:28:35.310 –> 01:28:38.430
15MinutesOfMurder.com: these people’s murders.

1035
01:28:38.430 –> 01:28:55.329
15MinutesOfMurder.com: But for this to be so unresolved. Like, I blame them for every ounce of pain that Sheila had to go through, that she still goes through, that her brothers and other family members are going through. I blame them

1036
01:28:55.330 –> 01:29:02.549
15MinutesOfMurder.com: For that, because it just feels like there was not just a botched investigation.

1037
01:29:03.160 –> 01:29:08.150
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I feel like there was literally no… Investigation.

1038
01:29:08.450 –> 01:29:11.589
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And that’s… that’s… that’s worse.

1039
01:29:11.860 –> 01:29:27.710
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Because at least with a botched investigation, there is some effort, you know, whether you… whether that you did that botchness on purpose, or you did that botchness… that botchness by, you know, natural ineptness.

1040
01:29:28.170 –> 01:29:32.299
15MinutesOfMurder.com: at least there was effort. I don’t… I don’t feel that there was effort here.

1041
01:29:33.350 –> 01:29:35.390
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And they deserve more than that.

1042
01:29:36.220 –> 01:29:37.180
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Absolutely.

1043
01:29:38.950 –> 01:29:48.159
15MinutesofMurder.com: no, I feel like… This is something we could talk about for another 2 or 3 podcasts.

1044
01:29:48.990 –> 01:29:49.640
15MinutesOfMurder.com: The whole scene.

1045
01:29:49.640 –> 01:29:58.420
15MinutesofMurder.com: It was… yeah, and it was strange… what feels strange to me going through this conversation, tonight.

1046
01:29:58.520 –> 01:30:03.590
15MinutesofMurder.com: is that… I don’t know why, but for some reason in the back of my head.

1047
01:30:04.080 –> 01:30:08.209
15MinutesofMurder.com: I kept thinking about this being a murder…

1048
01:30:08.570 –> 01:30:12.209
15MinutesofMurder.com: That was solved, and it’s done, and it’s over.

1049
01:30:12.570 –> 01:30:16.579
15MinutesofMurder.com: And it was sort of, like, a realization hit me that, like.

1050
01:30:17.100 –> 01:30:21.230
15MinutesofMurder.com: We could talk about this forever, because nothing was ever solved.

1051
01:30:21.430 –> 01:30:28.739
15MinutesofMurder.com: Right. Nothing, nothing ever… there was no conclusion. And then there probably never, never will be.

1052
01:30:28.740 –> 01:30:33.510
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Well, they… there was a re-emergence of the case in 2016.

1053
01:30:33.740 –> 01:30:41.100
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And they… the Plumas County Police Department, or Sheriff’s Department, announced that they… they know who the killers are.

1054
01:30:41.660 –> 01:30:51.050
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: because there was new evidence found, there was DNA on tape and some other items, and the hammer found in the river, matching the description of the party, and…

1055
01:30:51.280 –> 01:30:54.849
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, and Marilyn Smart, finally spoke out publicly.

1056
01:30:55.190 –> 01:30:57.990
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And we can definitely link you to that.

1057
01:30:58.240 –> 01:31:00.759
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It’s living on YouTube.

1058
01:31:00.920 –> 01:31:03.990
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But, but yeah, but…

1059
01:31:03.990 –> 01:31:05.420
15MinutesOfMurder.com: It’s just like, oh…

1060
01:31:05.500 –> 01:31:07.279
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: The murderers, they’re dead.

1061
01:31:08.630 –> 01:31:11.180
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And it was who we originally thought.

1062
01:31:11.840 –> 01:31:15.459
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: That we had in captivity, and then we let them go, because…

1063
01:31:18.740 –> 01:31:19.530
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Crime.

1064
01:31:19.750 –> 01:31:20.940
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And cover-ups. Right.

1065
01:31:21.960 –> 01:31:24.809
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Crime, cover-ups, and corruption.

1066
01:31:25.770 –> 01:31:29.250
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, crimes, cover-up, and corruption.

1067
01:31:30.910 –> 01:31:38.320
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, and I mean that… saying that you know who the killers are, and those killers are no longer… it doesn’t close anything. It doesn’t…

1068
01:31:38.320 –> 01:31:39.110
15MinutesOfMurder.com: No.

1069
01:31:39.680 –> 01:31:40.620
15MinutesOfMurder.com: No, cause, cause…

1070
01:31:40.620 –> 01:31:44.249
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Going back… well, going back to the fact they were at the bar.

1071
01:31:44.650 –> 01:31:46.060
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Marty and Bo…

1072
01:31:47.050 –> 01:31:49.620
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: are scapegoats Post-mortem.

1073
01:31:52.440 –> 01:31:54.020
15MinutesofMurder.com: Yeah, no, they’re dead.

1074
01:31:54.410 –> 01:32:04.310
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, they, they, they were… so, we, we call that they liked them for this. So, you know, right, we, you…

1075
01:32:04.520 –> 01:32:13.640
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Maybe you did, maybe you didn’t, but we like you for this. And I feel that was Marty and Bo. They liked them for this.

1076
01:32:14.170 –> 01:32:28.850
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And you know, I gotta say that I think that the re-emergence of this case reopening in 2016, has to do with the fact that people will not let this go. People will not let this family

1077
01:32:29.330 –> 01:32:48.480
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: go without answers, and I think that the more people who are covering this in podcasts like ours, and covering this, and bringing it to small towns, you know, small town newspapers, or even, like, visiting Keddie to visit where they tore down the town.

1078
01:32:48.580 –> 01:32:58.849
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: You know, people will not let this go, because it’s so unsettling, and like you said, this was the 80s, this was the majority of us, and…

1079
01:32:59.170 –> 01:33:04.660
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I think that’s… why you had that in 2016, and the fact that Sheila won’t let it

1080
01:33:04.790 –> 01:33:09.120
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Sheila won’t… won’t let their, memory go without distance.

1081
01:33:09.120 –> 01:33:09.740
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right.

1082
01:33:10.240 –> 01:33:14.109
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I mean, even at this point, I think there’s a difference between justice and truth.

1083
01:33:14.500 –> 01:33:17.130
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Because you can get justice in the wrong man?

1084
01:33:17.480 –> 01:33:19.759
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But, I don’t think we’ll ever know the truth.

1085
01:33:20.300 –> 01:33:28.680
15MinutesOfMurder.com: No, no. And they’re still playing around. So, oh, we have some DNA that matched a living…

1086
01:33:28.870 –> 01:33:31.550
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Suspect. Who is that?

1087
01:33:31.900 –> 01:33:32.460
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Hmm.

1088
01:33:32.460 –> 01:33:41.810
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Or, oh, yeah, the new detectives from the Sacramento Department of Justice, oh, and I think I saw this in an article from, like, 5 years ago.

1089
01:33:42.090 –> 01:33:49.819
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Oh, we’re close to… closing the case, or we’re close to arrest. That was 5 years ago.

1090
01:33:49.820 –> 01:33:50.480
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Hmm.

1091
01:33:51.610 –> 01:33:54.349
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Still nothing. Yeah, still nothing.

1092
01:33:55.190 –> 01:33:56.400
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah. Nothing.

1093
01:33:57.890 –> 01:34:03.639
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: So, Craig, I think you said there were… there were some questions? Were there questions that we could just circle back?

1094
01:34:03.640 –> 01:34:14.889
15MinutesofMurder.com: I think that we kind of hit them all, through tonight, but I, you know, also through this conversation, I’m like, well, where do we wrap up with this? It’s like…

1095
01:34:15.650 –> 01:34:18.330
15MinutesofMurder.com: There is no correct place to wrap up.

1096
01:34:18.660 –> 01:34:20.870
15MinutesofMurder.com: story tonight.

1097
01:34:20.870 –> 01:34:28.370
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: There’s… there’s none. I mean, I think… I think, technically, we can wrap up in… our own…

1098
01:34:29.000 –> 01:34:30.340
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Take in theory.

1099
01:34:31.090 –> 01:34:32.260
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And…

1100
01:34:35.290 –> 01:34:40.319
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I wanna be… I don’t want to accuse anyone.

1101
01:34:40.840 –> 01:34:47.030
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But I honestly cannot think of 1… Bing.

1102
01:34:47.320 –> 01:34:59.839
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: that says to me, this one did it, or that one did it. Because there’s so many different ways to go, and you don’t want to accuse someone who had nothing to do with it, and I…

1103
01:34:59.840 –> 01:35:24.039
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Had nothing to do with that. And prisons are full of that, I know, I get the phone calls, right? But again, that’s what I mean by the brunt of the blame, at least for me, lies with law enforcement, because again, if there were 10 running theories at the time, if y’all would have done even a piece of investigation, maybe now we’re only down to 6 theories.

1104
01:35:24.470 –> 01:35:24.970
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Hmm.

1105
01:35:24.970 –> 01:35:37.959
15MinutesOfMurder.com: do a little bit more, maybe we’re down to four. Like, you chip away at it, right? And there was no chipping. No one had a wood chipper in Keddie regarding Sue Sharpen and her family.

1106
01:35:38.480 –> 01:35:39.520
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

1107
01:35:39.530 –> 01:35:50.830
15MinutesofMurder.com: I think if we wanted to take a question that we got from one of the viewers at home this past week when we released the

1108
01:35:51.020 –> 01:35:53.850
15MinutesofMurder.com: The overview of this case, and of course.

1109
01:35:54.410 –> 01:36:03.269
15MinutesofMurder.com: everyone listening or watching this should check that episode out. We also have a case file that gives a little bit more of an outline of

1110
01:36:03.740 –> 01:36:08.900
15MinutesofMurder.com: who was involved and how things sort of went down as well. But Kirsten…

1111
01:36:09.040 –> 01:36:21.270
15MinutesofMurder.com: chimed in, and we’re encouraging everyone at home to be involved, so please send in your questions for any future cases that we’re gonna, be covering.

1112
01:36:21.320 –> 01:36:30.250
15MinutesofMurder.com: Kirsten said, when the case was reopened and DNA was found to belong to a living suspect, why did the case stall?

1113
01:36:30.440 –> 01:36:34.499
15MinutesofMurder.com: And I think we kind of just covered… covered that question.

1114
01:36:34.500 –> 01:36:35.240
15MinutesOfMurder.com: –

1115
01:36:36.360 –> 01:36:38.769
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah, I… again…

1116
01:36:40.240 –> 01:36:51.520
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Always. Always, always, because that is their role. The police… this is their role to investigate and get to the bottom of this,

1117
01:36:52.740 –> 01:36:55.070
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Why did it stall?

1118
01:36:55.750 –> 01:37:02.619
15MinutesOfMurder.com: we, we, we kind of, like Craig said, we kind of went through some of, some of those theories.

1119
01:37:03.070 –> 01:37:11.840
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah, I mean, short of… short of doing what Desiree does in the real world is hopping a plane to Keddie and knocking on some doors.

1120
01:37:11.840 –> 01:37:13.300
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Knocking on doors.

1121
01:37:13.760 –> 01:37:16.950
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Otherwise… A phone call is not gonna do it, and he’s.

1122
01:37:16.950 –> 01:37:32.859
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Right. Because it doesn’t matter how much DNA you have, how many fingerprints you have, how much surveillance footage you have, if people aren’t giving you stories.

1123
01:37:34.780 –> 01:37:42.710
15MinutesOfMurder.com: then you almost have nothing. Like, I don’t walk around with a DNA testing kit in my pocketbook, right? You know?

1124
01:37:42.960 –> 01:37:51.579
15MinutesOfMurder.com: just talk to me, and tell me what I need to know, and then I can branch off from there. Just… and it’s only 100 people.

1125
01:37:52.090 –> 01:37:52.710
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yeah.

1126
01:37:53.170 –> 01:38:06.890
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But again, it was 1981, and we’re now in 2025, and the likeliness that you will get a recollection that is accurate to what actually happened, if there are any people who

1127
01:38:07.310 –> 01:38:10.649
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Are surviving and willing to talk.

1128
01:38:11.120 –> 01:38:12.960
15MinutesOfMurder.com: I don’t know.

1129
01:38:12.960 –> 01:38:18.680
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But at the end of this, our first case, the Keddie Cabin murders, it all comes down to

1130
01:38:18.900 –> 01:38:20.799
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Potched police investigation.

1131
01:38:20.800 –> 01:38:21.400
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Batch pull.

1132
01:38:21.400 –> 01:38:22.070
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And…

1133
01:38:22.070 –> 01:38:22.820
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yes.

1134
01:38:22.820 –> 01:38:27.299
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: That’s who we would have to put it on, because it’s still open to this day.

1135
01:38:27.480 –> 01:38:28.090
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Even though…

1136
01:38:28.090 –> 01:38:30.810
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: They claim they know who the killers are.

1137
01:38:31.190 –> 01:38:33.169
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: It’s still an open case.

1138
01:38:33.300 –> 01:38:35.430
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And we don’t have answers.

1139
01:38:35.770 –> 01:38:42.270
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And maybe you all out there can keep researching and going down the rabbit hole?

1140
01:38:42.420 –> 01:38:47.700
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: To, you know, find some other leads or other theories.

1141
01:38:47.800 –> 01:38:56.000
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: And, of course, you know, keep up with us on 15minutesOfMurder.com, where if there’s any new breaks in the case, we will update as well.

1142
01:38:56.410 –> 01:39:01.379
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: But until then, like Desiree said, this falls on the police.

1143
01:39:02.470 –> 01:39:03.370
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yeah.

1144
01:39:04.840 –> 01:39:08.010
15MinutesofMurder.com: Right? So, tune in,

1145
01:39:08.620 –> 01:39:23.710
15MinutesofMurder.com: on Wednesdays, we go live for a little while. If you want to check in with us, Wednesdays at 7.30 p.m. Eastern Time, we’ll be on our YouTube channel live, so you can chat with us in the real.

1146
01:39:23.730 –> 01:39:40.099
15MinutesofMurder.com: And then next Sunday, we’ll be starting with a new case, so you won’t get this podcast version, you’ll get the produced episode that gives an overview of the case that we’re focusing on next. And then, of course.

1147
01:39:41.460 –> 01:39:44.570
15MinutesofMurder.com: Following that change, that timeline.

1148
01:39:45.360 –> 01:39:48.200
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Get involved, we want to hear from you. We want to hear your thoughts.

1149
01:39:48.200 –> 01:39:48.900
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yes.

1150
01:39:48.900 –> 01:39:58.359
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: what you… what your theories are. We want to hear from you, even if, you know, you want to speak out and include something that we might have missed.

1151
01:39:58.900 –> 01:40:00.310
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: In the episode.

1152
01:40:00.500 –> 01:40:09.019
15MinutesOfMurder.com: And I love me some Tanisha and Craig, but I would love to talk to some different folks, you know, I keep it spicy.

1153
01:40:09.020 –> 01:40:22.830
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yes. Yes, and going forward, we’re trying to work and build on some exciting things to, bring to you. I won’t reveal what they are, but we’re working on some…

1154
01:40:24.040 –> 01:40:26.379
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Extra features for our pockets.

1155
01:40:29.060 –> 01:40:29.640
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: I’ll eat it.

1156
01:40:30.960 –> 01:40:35.259
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Leave it at that! Don’t give it away, sis! Don’t give it away!

1157
01:40:36.600 –> 01:40:41.249
15MinutesofMurder.com: That’s right. Alright, well… That’s it for this time, I guess, yeah?

1158
01:40:41.250 –> 01:40:43.930
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: Yes, thanks for tuning in, everybody, and…

1159
01:40:43.930 –> 01:40:45.010
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Yar!

1160
01:40:45.010 –> 01:40:46.190
15MinutesofMurder.com: Bye.

1161
01:40:46.190 –> 01:40:46.620
15MiNUTESOFMURDER.COM: On Wednesday?

1162
01:40:46.620 –> 01:40:48.400
15MinutesOfMurder.com: Bye, everybody!

1163
01:40:53.820 –> 01:40:58.320
15MinutesofMurder.com: some, I’m gonna… I’m gonna… I’m gonna end it, and then we’ll start.